Belgium outlaws the Burka.

[maqroll]

If a muslim woman is pissed off about it, they can always move back to their more tolerant home country.

And if she was Belgian?

Then she can advocate for a change in the law, recourse that many muslim women around the world are forbidden to.

[kurtsimonw]

Don't see the fuss really.

There was a girl at my high school thats parents kicked up a fuss over something she was meant to wear due to religion. I don't like the idea that they feel their religion comes in front of rules put in place by a country or a school. They most certainly don't and never should.

[leviramsey]

Don't see the fuss really.

There was a girl at my high school thats parents kicked up a fuss over something she was meant to wear due to religion. I don't like the idea that they feel their religion comes in front of rules put in place by a country or a school. They most certainly don't and never should.

One's personal ethics, whatever they may be, should always come before the law, except to the extent that such ethics inhibit the personal ethics of others (and if there is any ground for doubt that such ethics pose such an inhibition, then the law loses).

I fail to see how a Muslim woman wearing a burka necessarily represents an inhibition on the ethics of another.

[maqroll]

Don't see the fuss really.

There was a girl at my high school thats parents kicked up a fuss over something she was meant to wear due to religion. I don't like the idea that they feel their religion comes in front of rules put in place by a country or a school. They most certainly don't and never should.

One's personal ethics, whatever they may be, should always come before the law, except to the extent that such ethics inhibit the personal ethics of others (and if there is any ground for doubt that such ethics pose such an inhibition, then the law loses).

I fail to see how a Muslim woman wearing a burka necessarily represents an inhibition on the ethics of another.

I'm not sure one's personal ethics should always come before the law.....

If the world ran on this principle, we would have anarchy.

[leviramsey]

I'm not sure one's personal ethics should always come before the law.....

If the world ran on this principle, we would have anarchy.

You say that like anarchy is a bad thing... :?

[Risso]

From the article:

The Belgian Bill outlaws any clothing that partly or fully covers the face and worn in public.

And from another article:

...no one can appear in public "with the face fully or partly covered so as to render them no longer recognizable."

How liberal.

How sensible.

[Ads]

You do realise this is supposedly a "christian" country right?

You do realise this only 'supposedly' a christian country? Really, its an atheist one.

We’re officially a protestant country.

[Ads]

If a muslim woman is pissed off about it, they can always move back to their more tolerant home country.

And if she was Belgian?

She could always go to Abercrombie and buy a nice hoodie instead.

[Wainy316]

as long as they also ban ppl from walking round in balaclvas as well, but honestly you have to be cruel to be kind.

I don't think you are allowed to just walk around in a balaclava are you (here)?

[Ads]

as long as they also ban ppl from walking round in balaclvas as well, but honestly you have to be cruel to be kind.

I don't think you are allowed to just walk around in a balaclava are you (here)?

You’re requested not to cover your face in shops and banks and so on, but otherwise, I saw a couple of people on Friday walking around the Trafford Centre doing their best impressions of Batman and the IRA.

[Dante_Lockhart]

I applaud the Belgians. We should do something similar.

You can't wear a hood in supermarkets for example, why should you be allowed to wear a Burka?

You do realise this is supposedly a "christian" country right?

Evidently not if a woman who worked for BA is going through all this because she was told she couldn't wear her silver cross.

Link

Ridiculous.

[tonyh29]

My understanding is that although ban the Burka grabs the headlines it's always been about any item that completely conceals the face ..

So whilst the anti Muslim feeling may be Yeah take that ! it could well be that the next time the masses want to take to the street anyone wearing a scarf around their face ,balaclava etc to conceal their identity as they stand around waiting to get baton charged by plod , could in all probability juts be arrested from the off

Interestingly I heard yesterday on the radio (for the first time) that one of the 7th July suspects spent a week on the run and hidden from the police by wearing a Burka ..anyone confirm this ? and does it suggest that a similar ban could be on it's way in the UK at some point on the basis of anti-terrorism

[Wainy316]

Would it not be fairer to ban burkhas in areas that may pose a security risk such as a bank or an airport then? But then I guess that defeats the object for most of them as they are meant to remain covered at all times in public as they are the property of their husband and should never be seen by anyone else.

Actually **** that! Ban them.

[drat01]

If you look at this seriously and take away all of the anti-Muslim rhetoric and comments that its solely done for terrorism avoidance etc, the whole subject of being identifiable in public is the issue.

I think I am right in saying you cannot walk into a bank with a full face bike helmet on(?) - is this done to stop suicide Muslim hells angels? No its a safety thing, a crime prevention item. When I go through any passport check in the world I either use IRIS or get my mug shot checked by some person, again visible face.

[Rodders]

Don't see the fuss really.

There was a girl at my high school thats parents kicked up a fuss over something she was meant to wear due to religion. I don't like the idea that they feel their religion comes in front of rules put in place by a country or a school. They most certainly don't and never should.

One's personal ethics, whatever they may be, should always come before the law, except to the extent that such ethics inhibit the personal ethics of others (and if there is any ground for doubt that such ethics pose such an inhibition, then the law loses).

I fail to see how a Muslim woman wearing a burka necessarily represents an inhibition on the ethics of another.

I'm not sure one's personal ethics should always come before the law.....

If the world ran on this principle, we would have anarchy.

Depends on what kind of life you want. If you like more or less the current set up, it would be a nightmare. If you want to live in the sticks cut off from society then go for it, there's space. But any collection of people inevitably draw themselves to conventions and then rules they can easily follow. I mean if you want pure anarchy where there's no organised anything .

[Awol]

Interestingly I heard yesterday on the radio (for the first time) that one of the 7th July suspects spent a week on the run and hidden from the police by wearing a Burka ..anyone confirm this ? and does it suggest that a similar ban could be on it's way in the UK at some point on the basis of anti-terrorism

Yes one of the 21/7 crew escaped to Italy by wearing a Burka but didn't reckon on the electronic intercept abilities of GCHQ et al. He was lifted in Rome IIRC.

Point being there is a genuine security issue around wearing these things in addition to the already raised issue of entering banks etc. After living in the ME for a few months I've seen a grand total of 0 being worn by the locals. Considering this is the Arabian penninsula, imo the argument that they're worn in UK because of religious observance is a crock of shit, but even if it wasn't since when do religious beliefs take precedence over existing laws?

Plenty of people on here were whining the other day about some "bigotted"* Chrisitians objecting to gay people staying in their B & B, I wonder how many of those same people are backing the right of some Muslim women to not follow the same laws as the rest of us and be able to totally conceal their identity at all times?

*Copyright G. Brown

[Richard]

From the article:

The Belgian Bill outlaws any clothing that partly or fully covers the face and worn in public.

And from another article:

...no one can appear in public "with the face fully or partly covered so as to render them no longer recognizable."

How liberal.

Presumably also includes the balaclava (sic) in the cold weather

[LondonLax]

Muslim woman fined for wearing burqa in northern Italy

Tunisian given on-the-spot fine of €500 under terrorism laws in Novara, run by anti-immigration Northern League

A Muslim woman in northern Italy has been given a €500 (£430) on-the-spot fine under anti-terrorism laws for wearing a face-covering burqa in public, according to reports.

In what is reported to be the first such case amid proposals for sanctions against traditional Islamic dress in a series of European countries, the 26-year-old Tunisian woman was stopped by police in the city of Novara, a stronghold of the anti-immigration Northern League.

The woman was wearing a full-length burqa with a niqab-type veil covering all her face apart from her eyes. She and her husband, both legal residents, were en route to Friday prayers when they were stopped by police for an identity check. Some reports said the pair were inside a post office at the time, while others said they were standing near it.

The husband was able to produce papers for the couple, but he refused to allow the male officers to see his wife's unveiled face to confirm her identity. This was done when a female officer was called to the scene.

Although there was no problem with the couple's status, the woman was fined €500 under a municipal ordinance introduced in January that bans clothing preventing easy identification of the wearer in public buildings.

The measure was introduced by Novara's Northern League mayor, Massimo Giordano, Italy's Ansa news agency reported. It is based on a national anti-terrorism law passed in 1975 which was intended to prevent the wearing of masks or motorcycle helmets.

Some police spot checks were specifically aimed at stopping Muslim women from wearing face-covering garments, the town's police chief, Paolo Cortese, told Ansa.

"Unfortunately it is apparently not yet clear to everyone that clothes preventing the wearer's identification can be tolerated at home but not in public places, in schools, on buses or in post offices," he said. "There are still some people that refuse to understand that our community in Novara does not accept and does not want people going around wearing the burqa."

According to the news agency, two other municipalities in northern Italy have issued anti-burqa rules based on the 1975 law. The AFP news agency quoted police as saying they believed it was the first time a fine had been imposed.

The woman is permitted to appeal against the fine.

About one in 12 of Novara's 100,000-strong population are immigrants. Very few Muslim woman in the town generally wear a niqab or burqa, according to police.

Last week, Belgium's parliament voted to ban face-covering Islamic garments for women. France is considering similar legislation.

It has already begun in Italy...

[drat01]

Plenty of people on here were whining the other day about some "bigotted"* Chrisitians objecting to gay people staying in their B & B, I wonder how many of those same people are backing the right of some Muslim women to not follow the same laws as the rest of us and be able to totally conceal their identity at all times?

Jon what the hell are you talking about? Trying to bring in some sort of political reference to where the Tory party are advocating homophobia and with some of their leading advisor's and possible soon to be MP's saying that the church will "cure" homosexuality through prayer - this has nothing to do with the wearing of the Burka.

Currently there is NO law saying that the Burka should not be worn in public, far too much of this is being argued both for and against based on the Muslim idea rather than the whole hiding away of the face.

when I was in Saudi and in Dubai I saw a fair few women in these - I appreciate you are living there now but to claim there are none is interesting. Maybe you aint looking in the right places? :wink:

Its a simple point totally away from religion and anything claiming to be religious or race, does the society that we live in want to allow for people to hide their faces when out in public. What are the issues that surround it if its allowed and likewise what are the issues if not. Should a Rasta or a Sikh be made to take off headgear in a pub (Note: a lot of pubs in city centre do not allow baseball caps).

As a non-Muslim I do find the whole idea of "forcing" a woman to cover her face somewhat oppressive, but I am sure that Muslim community who practice this could and should be allowed to explain the reasoning. Then again I find a lot of the "rules" with religion somewhat oppresive, from telling me what I can eat, what I can say etc.

[Awol]

Plenty of people on here were whining the other day about some "bigotted"* Chrisitians objecting to gay people staying in their B & B, I wonder how many of those same people are backing the right of some Muslim women to not follow the same laws as the rest of us and be able to totally conceal their identity at all times?

Jon what the hell are you talking about? Trying to bring in some sort of political reference to where the Tory party are advocating homophobia and with some of their leading advisor's and possible soon to be MP's saying that the church will "cure" homosexuality through prayer - this has nothing to do with the wearing of the Burka.

Eh? What the hell are you talking about??! My reference was to the couple who didn't want to allow homosexuals stay in their B & B and wondering whether those who were slating them for attempting to put their religious views above the law would equally oppose the wearing of a burka in places where none Muslims cannot conceal their identity?

This is the wrong thread for the shoe horned party political broadcast fella.