Bollitics: VT General Election Poll #5 - Leaders Debate Two

[Gringo]

see I can agree the mail is a vile paper stirring hatred but the implication is that all mail readers are Tory and fuckwits etc...

My mom gets the heil, but I think it's mainly for the crosswords and sudoku crap.

[Condimentalist]

Without wanting to regurgitate Tory rhetoric, it is actually true that if you vote for Clegg, you will end up with Brown. You will end up with a hung parliament made up of parties who have a big difference in opinion on some very key issues. We need leadership and stability at this moment in time, not political parties arguing over ideas in a hung parliament which are notoriously bad for the economy and have rarely ever worked in this country. And ironically, we could end up with a follow-up election just months after, costing our economy more money in the meantime. As if we needed any more debt.

Ah, good old fearmongering.

You only have one vote. That vote is best served as an aggregation of your actual preference as to which political party would be the best for the country (and/or your constituency).

If people vote in this way we will end up with something approaching a parliament that represents what country actually wants (albeit distorted by FPTP) rather than one based on a propaganda hyped fear of either Brown or Cameron. Besides, in many constituencies the best opportunity to oust these parties is represented by the Liberal Democrats, not the opposite old party.

Speaking personally, a hung parliament holds far less concern than the economy in the hands of George Osbourne.

[starsailor9774]

I will vote Conservative, my father who reads the Daily Mail will vote Labour. He then passes the paper on to his neighbours a young Muslim couple who have told him they are both voting Conservative......

[blandy]

I'm very wary of the combination of religion and politics, and unfortunately it seems to affect the Conservatives more than other parties (but not exclusively so). People using Politics to push their religious beliefs are a bad bad thing.

Maybe you have missed the current and last prime ministers; more affected by religion than any I think in living memory. ...

No I agree Paul - Blair particularly so. The bloke's a loon. Brown, dunno that religion evidences itself in what he does, or says. It's the Blair type of example, or the things Drat has suggested that I don't like. Obviously everyone has morals, and some people's come from religion, some from wherever else. It's the idea that "my religion says this, therefore this must be the law, or must drive policy" that I find wrong. - trying to make other people adhere to religious values via the law, or of course idiocy like Blairs and Bush's "God told me to do it".

[snowychap]

The loony left ... jumping on bandwagons and exaggerating stereotypes to the point of desperation.

Really not a good way to start your 'response' to the great irony on here.

On this nonsense:

Clegg on the other hand wants to stick a big post-it-note on Britain saying "Please don't be afraid to illegally come here because we will then give you the same privileges that everyone else gets" due to his farcical proposal to hold an amnesty for illegal’s.

The Lib Dem manifesto says:

We will let law-abiding families earn citizenship. We will allow people who have been in Britain without the correct papers for ten years, but speak English, have a clean record and want to live here long-term to earn their citizenship.

This route to citizenship will not apply to people arriving after 2010.

And before you kick off, I am not an advocate for any party.

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

No no don't be silly let them kick up a fuss over ill informed tripe fed to them by Murdoch and co.

[snowychap]

Guardian is pro Labour

I'm not sure the paper itself has come out in favour of anyone yet, has it? I thought they were going to take views from readers, have a meeting and all that jazz.

I'd be surprised if they don't (or haven't) come out in favour of the Lib Dems and I think the civil liberties debate would have a lot to do with that if they did.

[Awol]

[Well summed up.

I am surprised at you Awol, falling for the spin.

Hands up, I'd had a skin full when I got home and opened that link. In the cold light of sobriety Clegg's words no longer appear to be a capital crime.

However I maintain my opinion that he's broadly softer than a pensioners poo and I would not, under any circumstances, want him directing the defence and foreign policy of the UK.

[drat01]

Evidence? You Labour-ites are particularly good at claiming something without ever backing it up. My evidence? The leaflets printed by Labour which lied about Conservative AND SNP policy.

Oh dear oh dear - the old leaflet spin

So the fact that the Tory party has been spreading shite in leafkets about crime whilst quoting figures that are not true is OK?

Tory lies about the leaflets?

Tory leaflet lies

The fact that Lexus lie is blown away

Tory lie about Lexus

You want to debate and then say if you dont get your way you will leave the country. I maintain the stance well **** off and go then. No skin off my nose at all - good to see you have the funds to move out of the country, I wonder if the past few years of Labour gvmt have not allowed you to gain that wealth, or is that conveniently forgotten. If you class that as immature, then that is up to you, you are the one that is "taking his ball home" - albeit to one in a different country

The reference to PM and electing of one. Again you don't answer the question, you want a president? You want a directly elected PM. You vote for a constituency MP and that is all. So your repeating of Tory policy is somewhat flawed. Again do you want a president of the UK?

You are seemingly very happy with the Tory manifesto that you have copied into your post. Even though that manifesto is, IMO, full of unfufillable promises and pointing the country into a direction that is akin with that under the Thatcher regime. Explain how it will be paid for, explain the stance on intolerance such as the comments re Homosexual couples that came from Grayling, explain the views on the NHS that came from a leading Tory recently, explain the rises in the base rate of VAT that have always come from past Tory gvmts. See there are a million and 1 reasons why your post is full of Tory spin with little or no substance other than a repeat of the manifesto and the lies that come from mouthpeices such as the Mail and Sky

As for the comments on Cameron and Villa - why even mention this if you didn't want it challenging?

But to be honest you seem a devote Tory voter and so be it - from the polls it seems you have others who share your views. Doesn't mean for me they are right, just seems that some have brought the hype

[TheDon]

Clegg said he's not a man of faith but he's bringing up his kids in his wife's Catholic faith - bit of a politicians answer, I guess, from him.

Aye I heard he was an atheist and it made me think he'd be worth voting for.

Then I heard he was raising his kids catholic because of his wife, and it made me not want to vote for him. Guy doesn't have the balls to stand up to his wife over his beliefs, so how can we expect him to stand up for anything he believes in? :winkold:

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Because his wife gives him sexy time, we dont.

[drat01]

yeah and lets him go "bareback"

[snowychap]

On the issue of leaflets, as suggested in drat's second link, none of the three major parties is clean.

In my local constituency the recent 'leaflets' put out by both the Lib Dem candidate and a local businessman on behalf of the Tory candidate (probably so she can distance herself from the attack on the Lib Dem leaflet) are, at best, rather disingenuous and, at worst, (to use a Mandelsonism) rather grubby.

[PauloBarnesi]

I'm very wary of the combination of religion and politics, and unfortunately it seems to affect the Conservatives more than other parties (but not exclusively so). People using Politics to push their religious beliefs are a bad bad thing.

Maybe you have missed the current and last prime ministers; more affected by religion than any I think in living memory. ...

No I agree Paul - Blair particularly so. The bloke's a loon. Brown, dunno that religion evidences itself in what he does, or says. It's the Blair type of example, or the things Drat has suggested that I don't like. Obviously everyone has morals, and some people's come from religion, some from wherever else. It's the idea that "my religion says this, therefore this must be the law, or must drive policy" that I find wrong. - trying to make other people adhere to religious values via the law, or of course idiocy like Blairs and Bush's "God told me to do it".

I think in the case of Brown, he comes across with the belief; “I am right, because I am right”, which is very much in the mould of the Scottish Minister. Its not what he does, or says, more the way he does it. Brown’s attempts to humanise himself in the past year, seem to me to get dead against his upbringing, and so seem so unnatural.

I am not against someone with religious conviction being in charge of this country; its the way they deal with things that matters in the end.

[drat01]

On the issue of leaflets, as suggested in drat's second link, none of the three major parties is clean.

In my local constituency the recent 'leaflets' put out by both the Lib Dem candidate and a local businessman on behalf of the Tory candidate (probably so she can distance herself from the attack on the Lib Dem leaflet) are, at best, rather disingenuous and, at worst, (to use a Mandelsonism) rather grubby.

That is exactly the point - the moral high ground that is trying to be claimed by Cameron et al is hypocritical. But it is seemingly used as gospel by those that follow him

[snowychap]

That is exactly the point

Indeed.

I'm not sure whether it is part of the Electoral Commission's remit but if it isn't it ought to be.

I think they should look to try and weed out some of the nonsense that all parties think they can get away with whilst electioneering.

I also seem to remember some rather unsavoury stuff against Craig Murray in the respective campaigns in Norwich and, before that, Blackburn. I can't remember who was involved in all of that but I think a lot of the Norwich stuff surrounded posters apparently put up by Lib Dems (though I may well be wrong).

[R.I.C.O.]

Right, there's bugger all choice in Warley having seen the candidate list.

I'm not voting for John Spellar (Labour) as although he lives locally he's a complete hack and never voted against the government on any issue - in fact he's a whip! I reckon he'll walk the election, as the choice is poor.

The tories have parachuted in a man from Bedford to try to woo the large Sikh community here. Its similar with the Lib Dems who have also parachuted someone in. But I would have never voted for those two anyway.

Which leaves UKIP, who having read into their backdoor dealing with the BNP in some councils means I'd rather douse myself in petrol and start taking up smoking again than vote for those tossers.

Don't know why the Greens aren't standing, you'd imagine they'd have a chance of getting their deposit back in Warley. They would have got my vote.

So spoilt ballot paper it is.

P.S. I am working during the elections as a poll clerk and the rumour is that this will be the last "First Past the Post" General Election.

[thetrees]

P.S. I am working during the elections as a poll clerk and the rumour is that this will be the last "First Past the Post" General Election.

That beats hands down any 'in the know' posts in transfer threads either past or in the future.

[thetrees]

I will vote Conservative, my father who reads the Daily Mail will vote Labour. He then passes the paper on to his neighbours a young Muslim couple who have told him they are both voting Conservative......

My old man reads the Mail as well, but there isn't a cat in hells chance of him voting Tory.

Indeed, in the unlikely event that he outlives Maggie, I think that he will be applying to join Bickster's celebrations.

[R.I.C.O.]

P.S. I am working during the elections as a poll clerk and the rumour is that this will be the last "First Past the Post" General Election.

That beats hands down any 'in the know' posts in transfer threads either past or in the future.

Eh?

Its from a pretty good source, our election briefing session.