Bollitics: VT General Election Poll #5 - Leaders Debate Two

[Awol]

On a programme on Channel 4 I just heard Cameron say twice he is an Aston Villa fan.... now I heard this before but seriously, how did that happen? They are now talking about Cameron losing the vote of Birmingham and West Brom fans and the guy is saying Newcastle fans won't vote for him because we pinched James Milner. Classic

Yes, we are lucky to have such a thoughtful electorate...Jesus Christ.

[bickster]

On a programme on Channel 4 I just heard Cameron say twice he is an Aston Villa fan.... now I heard this before but seriously, how did that happen? They are now talking about Cameron losing the vote of Birmingham and West Brom fans and the guy is saying Newcastle fans won't vote for him because we pinched James Milner. Classic

Google tells me he is the son of a former Villa Chairman, well that is news to me.

Google would be wrong, He is the nephew of Sir William Dugdale, which I think makes him the cousin of Damien Dugdale who used to do The Villa Blog site

[PauloBarnesi]

Interestingly the Times political correspondent, Roland Watson, is a fellow old etonian and Villa fan. Add Prince William and the place is swarming with them.

[TrentVilla]

Nice to see Cameron getting some real questions thrown at him by Paxman rather than the crap on the debates.

[Awol]

Nick Clegg, the British have

"A misplaced sense of superiority sustained by delusions of grandeur"

Okay, fairly standard fare from the self loathing Left in Britain, but this??!

"All nations have a cross to bear, none more so than Germany with its memories of Nazism."

and goes on to say:

"But the British cross is more insidious still"

:shock:

Mr Clegg, did you really say the British were worse than the Nazi's??

Apparently so.. Watch me

This is the bloke half or more of VT plan to vote for?

EDIT:

From the original Guardian piece in 2002:

here

All nations have a cross to bear, and none more so than Germany with its memories of Nazism. But the British cross is more insidious still. A misplaced sense of superiority, sustained by delusions of grandeur and a tenacious obsession with the last war, is much harder to shake off. I wish Mr Puhle and Mr Sawartzki well. We need to be put back in our place.

Better Gordon Brown than this chopper, imagine if he were running our foreign policy? It doesn't bear thinking about.

[TrentVilla]

Typical Germans

[snowychap]

Mr Clegg, did you really say the British were worse than the Nazi's??

According to your quote, he said, " ...the British cross is more insidious still."

It appears he wrote whatever he did as part of a speech or report as an MEP a number of years ago.

Perhaps it might be an idea to read the entire speech/report in order to understand the context or what he was trying to say rather than the Mail headline via The Daily Politics. I haven't read his report but it would be the first thing I'd try and do were I to want to make a judgement about what he was saying.

[bickster]

Nick Clegg, the British have

"A misplaced sense of superiority sustained by delusions of grandeur"

Okay, fairly standard fare from the self loathing Left in Britain, but this??!

"All nations have a cross to bear, none more so than Germany with its memories of Nazism."

and goes on to say:

"But the British cross is more insidious still"

:shock:

Mr Clegg, did you really say the British were worse than the Nazi's??

Apparently so.. Watch me

This is the bloke half or more of VT plan to vote for?

EDIT:

From the original Guardian piece in 2002:

here

All nations have a cross to bear, and none more so than Germany with its memories of Nazism. But the British cross is more insidious still. A misplaced sense of superiority, sustained by delusions of grandeur and a tenacious obsession with the last war, is much harder to shake off. I wish Mr Puhle and Mr Sawartzki well. We need to be put back in our place.

Better Gordon Brown than this chopper, imagine if he were running our foreign policy? It doesn't bear thinking about.

This appears to have been at least 6 years ago. Typical Daily Heil

[Awol]

Mr Clegg, did you really say the British were worse than the Nazi's??

According to your quote, he said, " ...the British cross is more insidious still."

It appears he wrote whatever he did as part of a speech or report as an MEP a number of years ago.

Perhaps it might be an idea to read the entire speech/report in order to understand the context or what he was trying to say rather than the Mail headline via The Daily Politics. I haven't read his report but it would be the first thing I'd try and do were I to want to make a judgement about what he was saying.

See edit on previous page and link to the original article. It doesn't sound any better in context.

[snowychap]

See edit on previous page and link to the original article. It doesn't sound any better in context.

What do you consider the meaning of 'more insidious' to be? :?

[Awol]

This appears to have been at least 6 years ago. Typical Daily Heil

It's the Heil's fault he said this is it? Perhaps eight years ago people (rightly) dismissed it as the witterings of an idiot. Now the bloke is topping many polls for an imminent election and maybe his previous comments are being scrutinised a little more?

I say again, what a tube.

[Awol]

See edit on previous page and link to the original article. It doesn't sound any better in context.

What do you consider the meaning of 'more insidious' to be? :?

in·sid·i·ous (n-sd-s)

adj.

1. Working or spreading harmfully in a subtle or stealthy manner: insidious rumors; an insidious disease.

2. Intended to entrap; treacherous: insidious misinformation.

3. Beguiling but harmful; alluring: insidious pleasures.

EDIT:

So our national 'cross' or guilt in this instance, is more insidious than being responsible for WW2 (although it may have been Thatcher who invaded Poland) apparently. What shite.

[blandy]

The cross the German people bear, is in the deeds of previous generations, with a very few exceptions, the perpetrators of the horrors are dead (and not before time).

What Clegg was talking about was essentially an endemic (amongst a swathe of British people too young to remember the war) casual racism (essentially, though they are not a race) against German people. It is insidious.

I don't see how disapproval of that is a bad thing. It's appalling how from tabloid newspapers to third rate comedians like Stan Boardman and many in between, people with no involvement will target other people with no involvement with the kind of unthinking hatred that says all Germans are Nazis and other such idiocy.

As much as the losers of a 65 year ago war have a burden to carry, so do the victors.

Rampant nationalism from the BNP, from idiots, from Germans, from anyone is a vile thing.

At least the Germans are aware and despite practically none of them being involved hugely apologetic on behalf of previous generations. Germany won't do it again, "we" bloody will while people condemn someone for pointing out the idiocy of fellow Brits.

his exact words were "All nations have a cross to bear, and none more than Germany with its memories of Nazism," .... "But the British cross is more insidious still. A misplaced sense of superiority, sustained by delusions of grandeur and a tenacious obsession with the last war, is much harder to shake off." and he's bang on the money. And being as the Daily effing Mail published the article slagging him off - the Mail which was sympathetic to the Nazis and still, to my reading appears to have a lot to learn in respect of , er, respect for other views and other nations.....if people fall for their bile, I pity them.

[bickster]

You do know what insidious means don't you? It isn't a euphemism for nor a synonym of worse

insidious [ɪnˈsɪdɪəs]

adj

1. stealthy, subtle, cunning, or treacherous

2. working in a subtle or apparently innocuous way, but nevertheless deadly

He doesn't at any point say we were "worse than the Nazi's"

[Awol]

Blandy,

My surprise is that a man with such a low opinion of his own countrymen would seek to lead them. It's not about 'falling' for anything from one paper or another, Cleggs views are readily apparent.

[TrentVilla]

How The Mail can label anyone a Nazi given their history under Lord Rothermere is beyond me, I'm going to vote for the Blandy party on this one.

[Awol]

How The Mail can label anyone a Nazi given their history under Lord Rothermere is beyond me, I'm going to vote for the Blandy party on this one.

That's good, because they haven't called Clegg a Nazi.

[snowychap]

What do you consider the meaning of 'more insidious' to be? :?

in·sid·i·ous (n-sd-s)

adj.

1. Working or spreading harmfully in a subtle or stealthy manner: insidious rumors; an insidious disease.

2. Intended to entrap; treacherous: insidious misinformation.

3. Beguiling but harmful; alluring: insidious pleasures.

EDIT:

So our national 'cross' or guilt in this instance, is more insidious than being responsible for WW2 (although it may have been Thatcher who invaded Poland) apparently. What shite.

Jon, I asked you what you considered the meaning of 'more insidious' to be. I know perfectly well what insidious means and, as Bicks points out above, it does not mean 'worse'.

Edit: Apologies if that came out the wrong way. I only meant to suggest that it appears you've misunderstood what insidious means.

In the context that Clegg was using it, he meant that the cross that the British had to bear was a more subtle one and he compared it to the one that Germans have to bear for Nazism (even those Germans a generation or two down the line and, maybe, those for generations to come) in its level of 'subtlety'.

He does actually say, "All nations have a cross to bear, and none more so than Germany with its memories of Nazism."

[Hanky]

Lib Dem.

[blandy]

Blandy,

My surprise is that a man with such a low opinion of his own countrymen would seek to lead them. It's not about 'falling' for anything from one paper or another, Cleggs views are readily apparent.

Someone has taken

Clegg in Nazi Slur on Britain"

to mean "

...the British were worse than the Nazi's??

When he said no such thing. He didn't even make a "Nazi slur" of any sort. He said people indulging in anti German behaviour, against Germans in the UK, hounding them out of their jobs, making their lives a misery was wrong, and insidious, and it is.

Low opinion of the eejits who did what he described in his article - too right. What do you think of the people he described?

Maybe it's just "knockabout" political discussion from yourself, fine..... When National Newspapers go in for this sort of thing it's pathetic, dishonest and all the rest.....and leads to people taking up the cudgels, using the Mail's distorted views as their weapon.

It seems to me that either you've fallen for it, or you haven't but are using their spite anyway. I hope I'm wrong on that.

The more people like the Mail go for him, the more inclined I am to vote for the Yellow party, rather than spoil the ballot, or vote for some independent character.