Bollitics: VT General Election Poll #4 - Leaders Debate one

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Teachers tend to lean towards the left because maggie stole their milk.

[tonyh29]

I think from the polls it's obvious that no one really wants David Cameron, or rather no one wants the tories, but they just don't want Labour.

Is that the David cameron that is ahead on most of the polls ?

I can understand some may not want him but the need to remove labour from power should be greater

[thetrees]

The need to fix them should have been the catalyst to raising the age of full consent and majority to 21 on alcohol, smoking, voting and sex.

Thankfully the majority of people don't live in the dark ages and wouldn't stand for such nonsense.

Thats a whole generation of rapists you want to raise.

Hey guys, thanks for reading my post before jerking your knees :winkold:

[tonyh29]

Teachers tend to lean towards the left because maggie stole their milk.

you must be new here as it's already been proven that thatcher the milk snatcher was actually Heath the milk snatcher

you should read up on it sometime , it probably won't change your perception of thatcher but it's an eye opener as she fought hard for schools and was shafted by a leader playing petty politics

[bickster]

The need to fix them should have been the catalyst to raising the age of full consent and majority to 21 on alcohol, smoking, voting and sex.

Thankfully the majority of people don't live in the dark ages and wouldn't stand for such nonsense.

Thats a whole generation of rapists you want to raise.

Hey guys, thanks for reading my post before jerking your knees :winkold:

I read it, it still seems exactly as I originally thought though, theres no such thing as half consent or partial consent in terms of sex, consent is an absolute, can't see how it can be anything else

You are either old enough to have consensual sex or you aren't surely?

Oh and raising the age of everything to 21 is fundamentally silly in my opinion

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

Oh I know, she's still a complete cu*t though and thus it remains

Maybe it should be rephrased, teachers tend to lean towards the left because they get shafted by tories at any opportunity?

Although I agree with Camdogs policy on schools, they don't have much of a track record compared to Labour and Labour have done very well in education over the past million years they've been in office. Also teachers tend to be more liberal because they evolve with society unlike a lot of other jobs, meaning with changes in cultural diversity comes greater changes within the classroom, and teachers therefore become more tolerant of things than say a bank manager.

On the OUCA front, interesting to read Ed Balls was a member.

[bickster]

On the OUCA front, interesting to read Ed Balls was a member.

Well only in the way that confirms he's in a conservative party

[snowychap]

Ed Balls was a member

Ed Balls is still 'a member'.

[bickster]

And this happened when?

Probably the same time as your mythical person voting on behalf of their senile relative :-)

all teachers are lefties ... Fact , end of etc The brown cords , Citroën 2cv etc give it away

Oh I can definitely think of some in my school that were bordering on the fascist

[kidlewis]

I've just read that both the Libs and Labour are planning to lower the voting age to 16.

More unbelievable populist politics crap.

Labour have promised to call a vote on lowering the voting age in the commons if elected I believe. Which would no doubt be rejected.

when I was 16 I didn't know anyone who actually took the remotest of interest in politics. It's not taught in our schools to any kind of level so how they can say that someone in this country who is 16 years old can make an informed decision on who to vote for is rubbish.

when you are 16 it's football, fanny, fags, fruity alcoholic beverages, food, fannying about.

a) because people aren't taught politics they don't have a right to have a say in democracy? Rules out the majority of the country I'd have thought

maybe if people had a vote at 16 they'd become interested at an earlier age?

c) what is the worst that can happen? 16 and 17 year olds have a vote? that has to be better than some old duffer with senile dementia getting a proxy vote filled in by a relative who effectively gets two votes, and thats allowed

d) surely if you're old enough to have consensual sex, you're old enough to vote?

e) I really don't see how it can possibly be construed as populist, which people of current voting age have this issue high on their agendas?

a) no but how else are they going to find out about political issues? majority of 16 years olds would not be pro active enough in regards to politics. Maybe if they launched a political xbox game they would take note!

maybe, but I don't think it would personally.

c) well someone with severe dementia shouldn't be given a vote because they aren't capable of making that decision themselves. I also think that if 16 year olds are given the vote then why leave it at 16? everyone is effected by political decisions so what about everyone from secondary school onwards?

d) on that basis if they are responsible enough to have safe sex, then allow them to drink, work full time, smoke and vote then.

e) I don't know who they are targeting with this pledge? because the people they want to target can't vote, and if I was back 18-19 years old or at Uni, I wouldn't want that because I know I would be voting for 'who's the fittest (if female)' or who is the funniest. Boris Johnson would be PM if the votes were purely counted on 16 year old votes.

[Chindie]

A lot of this country want to vote for David Cameron. I'd suggest these people shouldn't be allowed to vote either.

[bickster]

a) no but how else are they going to find out about political issues? majority of 16 years olds would not be pro active enough in regards to politics. Maybe if they launched a political xbox game they would take note!

maybe, but I don't think it would personally.

c) well someone with severe dementia shouldn't be given a vote because they aren't capable of making that decision themselves. I also think that if 16 year olds are given the vote then why leave it at 16? everyone is effected by political decisions so what about everyone from secondary school onwards?

d) on that basis if they are responsible enough to have safe sex, then allow them to drink, work full time, smoke and vote then.

e) I don't know who they are targeting with this pledge? because the people they want to target can't vote, and if I was back 18-19 years old or at Uni, I wouldn't want that because I know I would be voting for 'who's the fittest (if female)' or who is the funniest. Boris Johnson would be PM if the votes were purely counted on 16 year old votes.

a) exactly the same argument applies to anyone under 25

well if they don't vote, nothings changed, if they do get involved in political thought and debate at an earlier age it's a good thing isn't it? Its one of those no lose situations

c) tbh I'm not sure where I stand on that issue, I can think of pros and cons, I was merely using it as an illustration

d) agreed, can't see the harm in it

e) that point wasn't aimed at what you said but the trees saying it was populist, I am saying it can't be

[thetrees]

I read it, it still seems exactly as I originally thought though, theres no such thing as half consent or partial consent in terms of sex, consent is an absolute, can't see how it can be anything else

You are either old enough to have consensual sex or you aren't surely?

Oh and raising the age of everything to 21 is fundamentally silly in my opinion

In certain countries in Europe they have graduated consent.

A little thought could have done the same, thus protecting 16 year old children from predatory people who are much older than them.

Under this 16 would be the initial age of consent, but with 21 being the age where consensual sex can be between partners of any age.

Raising the age to buy tobacco was acceptable, so why not a considerate tweaking of the consent laws?

Oh, and I would also raise the age at which people can buy and consume spirits.

I may live in the dark ages, but maybe it's because I care about the society around me and the welfare of its young people.

[bickster]

In certain countries in Europe they have graduated consent.

A little thought could have done the same, thus protecting 16 year old children from predatory people who are much older than them.

Under this 16 would be the initial age of consent, but with 21 being the age where consensual sex can be between partners of any age.

How silly, someone whose 20 can't have sex with someone whose 22 but they can have sex with a 16 year old?

Raising the age to buy tobacco was acceptable, so why not a considerate tweaking of the consent laws?

Was it acceptable? I think the smokers aged 16 and 17 didn't think so, especially as they were legal one day and not the next

Oh, and I would also raise the age at which people can buy and consume spirits.

Again I feel that is silly too as the only probable definition would come in terms of alcohol percentage and there is bound to be a limit set at such a low level as to cause more idiotic scenarios. Youth drinking problems aren't generally caused by spirits but alcopops / cider because they taste acceptably sweet to the kids palates and they drink too many too quickly

I may live in the dark ages, but maybe it's because I care about the society around me and the welfare of its young people.

Doesn't make you right though

[Guest Ricardomeister]

I see the Tories are pandering to their core Daily Fascist types with their new "Let's cut benefits for those who refuse work" poster campaign. Seeing as people have their jobseekers allowance cut already if they refuse work I don't see the point in this except to pander to the prejudices of many Tory voters. It also strikes me as an act of an increasingly desperate party.

I wonder if we will also see a Tory poster campaign called "Increase the penalties for the rich who avoid paying their share of tax". or even "We will create jobs for the unemployed" I won't hold my breath!

Interesting that labour are losing their vote to the BNP and yet its only Tories who are facists

and why is every rich person who has tried to avoid paying tax a Tory ?

But long as voters have preconceptions I don't suppose anything will ever change really , will it ?

The only person here with preconceptions is you. I certainly never said, or even inferred, that "its only Tories who are facists" (nb I have quoted verbatim, hence the grammatical and spelling mistakes :winkold: )

Also, I have never said or inferred that "every rich person who has tried to avoid paying tax" is "a Tory".

[tonyh29]

my post was a generic question to all so wind your neck in ....

[thetrees]

In certain countries in Europe they have graduated consent.

A little thought could have done the same, thus protecting 16 year old children from predatory people who are much older than them.

Under this 16 would be the initial age of consent, but with 21 being the age where consensual sex can be between partners of any age.

How silly, someone whose 20 can't have sex with someone whose 22 but they can have sex with a 16 year old?

Again, I didn't state that, and that wouldn't be the case (as it couldn't)

Raising the age to buy tobacco was acceptable, so why not a considerate tweaking of the consent laws?

Was it acceptable? I think the smokers aged 16 and 17 didn't think so, especially as they were legal one day and not the next

'Acceptable' in the fact that it was changed without too many non-affected people noticing.

Oh, and I would also raise the age at which people can buy and consume spirits.

Again I feel that is silly too as the only probable definition would come in terms of alcohol percentage and there is bound to be a limit set at such a low level as to cause more idiotic scenarios. Youth drinking problems aren't generally caused by spirits but alcopops / cider because they taste acceptably sweet to the kids palates and they drink too many too quickly

You mention 'youth' and 'kids' in the same sentence. My impression is that the level of spirits consumption amongst young people (youth), particularly vodka and 'shots', is worryingly high, and potentially damaging. Generally young people supping beer, cider and sweet alcopops don't become alcoholics. Those drinking bottles of Vodka stand a lot better chance of having long term alcohol problems.

I may live in the dark ages, but maybe it's because I care about the society around me and the welfare of its young people.

Doesn't make you right though

Is anyone right in a thread like this?

[Awol]

Hung Parliament is the best scenario, couldn't give a monkeys about the effects on businesses around the country because there needs to be some sort of political reform which could lead to an election where it isn't just 'meh' but more 'well who is best equipped to take us into the future?'

Yes political reform is a must, but the comment that you "couldn't give a monkeys about the effects on businesses around the country" is utterly idiotic. You don't care about a massive rise in unemployment and a further collapse of the tax revenues needed to pay for all the services you fiercely defend (not to mention Brown's mahoosive debt)?

What about social unrest and the rise of extremists who thrive when economies crash? The surest way to ensure that happens is a hung Parliament because the markets will shite their pants and UK Plc will be in very deep trouble.

How so many people are failing to see it coming and actually hoping for this outcome is amazing. In the current economic conditions I'd rather see a Labour Government than a hung Parliament and I say that despite the fact I could cheerfully shoot every last one of them.

[Jon]

Is anyone right in a thread like this?

me :nod:

although conversely, i am also left. :winkold:

[bickster]

Trees, I really cant be bothered to have another quotathon but I clearly don't understand what you are saying about this progressive consent thing but it still sounds odd to me. Acceptable to the people it didn't affect? We'll it would be wouldn't it? tbh on the smoking thing I think most people agreed with it BUT I was just against it because it seemed to be the wrong way to stop people smoking, make it illegal and they'll want to do it more, educate them and they'll smoke less (which was the approach that had been working for decades as the number of smokers generally has decreased massively). We have a fair few members of staff at work who fall into the late teens (16-20) and the majority of them are either drinking alcopops or spirits with huge mixers in them like Vodka / red bull (which effectively turns them into an alcopop anyway). I can see where you are coming from but its hugely messy and bound to be confusing, education again not legislation has to be the way forward. I don't get the impression any of them are there swigging neat vodka from the bottle

Of course no ones right btw, I just think your approach is particularly wrong