Bollitics: VT General Election Poll #3 - GE Week One

[Ads]

but neither has said why.

As they want to maintain our nuclear deterrent.

[Clarry]

From Seattle

"Do not become America where if the people do not volunteer and donate vast amounts of money the "public" schools crumble because they are funded so little by the government. Parent donations actually fund some of the staff at my kids public school and if parents didn't show up to volunteer, nothing would happen. The budget was cut so drastically this year we have to again do with less teachers and more students. Ugh, I'm moving to Europe!! OH and another thing, community volunteering and monetary donations is what creates our parks too. Do not get me started!!!"

From Cardiff

"I worked as a community development worker for ten years, volunteers were bloody hard to find. ive also been a parent governor and tbh i gave it up because the teachers were doing a good job and i couldnt see what i could do about it. it will either make no difference to or be wholly divisive for -communities "

[snowychap]

Having the combination of a zero-marginal-rate tax bracket and a basic tax credit creates the poverty trap.

End one of them and you make the effective marginal tax rates much smoother

What do you mean by a 'basic tax credit'?

A broadly-available refundable tax credit that results in many of low or no income paying an effectively negative rate of tax... the US Earned Income Tax Credit (though the EITC is more because Social Security and Medicare taxes apply from the first dollar of earned income and thus account for a rather large portion of the payroll deductions for lower-income workers) is an example, and I'd suspect that the UK tax credits discussed fall into that category.

In which case why did the poverty trap exist before the UK brought in a tax credit system (if, as you said, it is as simple as getting rid of one or t'other)?

Again, is it not a case of looking at it in terms of the problem being the mathematical amount of marginal tax rates being the problem rather than the effect that may have on those caught in that trap?

And I haven't yet followed Pete's suggestion in looking on the IFS website for any historical data regarding the poverty trap in the UK but I seem to remember that in its barest form (i.e. not taking into account the real cost of transferring to the labour market from unemployment at the bottom end) the marginal rates were, generally, higher in the 80s/90s than as shown by the article Tony quoted.

[snowychap]

...because of the extra funding that fee's bring compared to state funding the class sizes are smaller, much smaller. Nothing improves education more than smaller class sizes and more one to one learning, the last I checked we on average have the largest class sizes in Western Europe.

Is it so important, though? I've read a number of articles quoting studies that say that it can be important (more especially in earlier years) but it seems it is a difficult thing to quantify the effect. It possibly makes problems more difficult to deal with and it possibly exacerbates problems in classes with different ability levels but I'm not so sure it is the root of everything.

On the whole, for the three years from 13 to 15 (inclusive), our year was split into five sets (for the compulsory subjects) and there were 110 boys in my year. Maybe streaming mitigated the issues with class sizes? I don't know. But the average number per set doesn't sound too different to the state sector.

[TrentVilla]

Is it so important, though? I've read a number of articles quoting studies that say that it can be important (more especially in earlier years) but it seems it is a difficult thing to quantify the effect.

This is as I said more of a topic of its own which is why I didn't go into more detail however yes this is mainly an issue within Primary rather than Secondary education, it is though Primary education that shapes an adult and their future learning and is far more important than secondary learning in that sense.

The effects of class size on Primary pupils is beyond question and is evident the value added scores of most (not all schools) in relation to the class sizes.

[Clarry]

Is it so important, though? I've read a number of articles quoting studies that say that it can be important (more especially in earlier years) but it seems it is a difficult thing to quantify the effect.

This is as I said more of a topic of its own which is why I didn't go into more detail however yes this is mainly an issue within Primary rather than Secondary education, it is though Primary education that shapes an adult and their future learning and is far more important than secondary learning in that sense.

The effects of class size on Primary pupils is beyond question and is evident the value added scores of most (not all schools) in relation to the class sizes.

This is also why Teaching Assistants are so needed in Primary schools too.

[Richard]

Peter I attended a meeting yesterday which explained that there are over 250K civil servants in Whitehall. I'll dig out my notes and clarify

And I am not suggesting cutting jobs.

[TrentVilla]

Is it so important, though? I've read a number of articles quoting studies that say that it can be important (more especially in earlier years) but it seems it is a difficult thing to quantify the effect.

This is as I said more of a topic of its own which is why I didn't go into more detail however yes this is mainly an issue within Primary rather than Secondary education, it is though Primary education that shapes an adult and their future learning and is far more important than secondary learning in that sense.

The effects of class size on Primary pupils is beyond question and is evident the value added scores of most (not all schools) in relation to the class sizes.

This is also why Teaching Assistants are so needed in Primary schools too.

Exactly, they have a vital role to play. In an ideal world we would build more schools or extend the ones we have, employ more teachers and reduce class sizes. Failing that employing TA's to split classes and decrease the adult/child ratio is the next best thing.

[snowychap]

Is it so important, though? I've read a number of articles quoting studies that say that it can be important (more especially in earlier years) but it seems it is a difficult thing to quantify the effect.

This is as I said more of a topic of its own which is why I didn't go into more detail however yes this is mainly an issue within Primary rather than Secondary education, it is though Primary education that shapes an adult and their future learning and is far more important than secondary learning in that sense.

Fair point.

[LJRM050389]

Peter I attended a meeting yesterday which explained that there are over 250K civil servants in Whitehall. I'll dig out my notes and clarify

And I am not suggesting cutting jobs.

You do it by doing what they do in the USA, put different departments in different cities (states in the USA), reducing London costs, spreading the wealth and talent around the country and not just London!

[drat01]

LJRM - that is what the Labour party is proposing I believe - The Tory party is still very SE centric as we have seen recently though and the London and Home Counties bias will remain with them

[LJRM050389]

LJRM - that is what the Labour party is proposing I believe - The Tory party is still very SE centric as we have seen recently though and the London and Home Counties bias will remain with them

Well its my career aim to be a Labour Local Councillor within ten years so I will do my upmost to ensure Brum gets one

[tonyh29]

that is what the Labour party is proposing I believe

but why has it taken them 13 years of government to not do it before ?

was it anything to do with Prescotts plan of flooding the South East with cheap housing and labour voters for the past 13 years ?

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

that is what the Labour party is proposing I believe

but why has it taken them 13 years of government to not do it before ?

was it anything to do with Prescotts plan of flooding the South East with cheap housing and labour voters for the past 13 years ?

Labour betrayed their voters, and went from being the voice of the working class to the ensurers of the middle class.

I think anyone would agree that the UK should be less London-centric, it just isn't healthy for an economy to rely so heavily on the city.

But I'm afraid for you this is where Cameron and crew fall down because they are similar to Labour in doing their best in keeping the middle class happy. And because the middle classes are essentially in London and the SE this is where the focus will remain.

I would also argue that it would be worsened under a Tory government, but it doesn't effect you so why care?

That should actually be their election tagline.

[tonyh29]

I would also argue that it would be worsened under a Tory government

sigh

doesn't anybody read this thread .....

[blandy]

Peter I attended a meeting yesterday which explained that there are over 250K civil servants in Whitehall. I'll dig out my notes and clarify

And I am not suggesting cutting jobs.

You do it by doing what they do in the USA, put different departments in different cities (states in the USA), reducing London costs, spreading the wealth and talent around the country and not just London!

Richard - please do. I'd be interested, as those ONS figures are the latest ones.

If you don't cut jobs, then what, their wages? Most of them are on pretty poor wages for London. I'm sure some will be overpaid, but not that many, and not so many as to make a dent in the deficit.

LJRM - they've already done that - from that ONS report something like 2/3rds are outside London (which is good).

I'm more inclined to look at Quango type groups, consultants brought in by the Gov't at ridiculous fees and that kind of thing. There's definitely waste in the overall system, I'd just like to see the cuts go in the right areas, and not in what looks like an easy soundbite target, which actually is a group of poorly remunerated people doing important jobs that keep things ticking over.

[Vojskovoda]

Why does the poll suggest the lib dems are quite popular in this thread? Everyone I know is either voting for either Conservative (mostly) or Labour... I don't know anyone who's voting for lib dems so I don't know why lib dems are starting to come out with brash statements with what they're going to do when they won't even get the majority vote. I guess it's their way to drum up some support because they know they've got lack of it anyway.

Cameron FTW.

[drat01]

If ever there was a reason NOT to vote Tory - I think I have just read it

[CarewsEyebrowDesigner]

No no, he summed up the Tory's perfectly.

Cameron FTW, not conservatives.

Just wish people would look past the man with the golden tan.

[snowychap]

Just wish people would look past the man with the golden tan.

What's Dickinson got to do with it?