The "Witton Lane" Boxing Chat Thread

[The_Rev]

4 hours ago, Genie said:

Wilder verusus AJ would be interesting, I don’t think AJ beats that Wilder.

Maybe not the Wilder who walked out at the start of the first round, but the beating he took in the second half of the fight will surely have a permanent effect.  Wilder was taking shots like Rocky Balboa towards the end, heart of a lion, balls of steel but he got absolutely lit up.  
 

The fight itself was one for the ages.  Fight of the year without doubt and even in 2021 it’s gotta be on the shortlist for fight for fight of the decade.  Fury is just something else, he can box, he can brawl, he’s got a ridiculous chin.  Who beats him?  I think prime Fury stands with guys like Lennox Lewis and Mike Tyson.  

[sheepyvillian]

2 hours ago, TreeVillan said:

Greatest human being of all time?

“A black man should be killed if he’s messing with a white woman,” he said. And it was the same for a white man making a pass at a black woman. “We’ll kill anybody who tries to mess around with our women.” But suppose the black woman wanted to be with the white man, the interviewer asked. “Then she dies,” Ali answered. “Kill her too.”

 

This is a man who won an Olympic gold medal for America, then went back home only to be denied entrance to a restaurant because of the colour of his skin. Work that one out. I'm sure he said a lot of things that he later came to regret, but his stance on the war in Vietnam and his reasons for not going can never be disputed. 

I always laugh when that old chestnut comes up about Ali never liked white  people, bullshit, he didn't trust them,  in general, and when you consider the political climate of America at that time, who can blame him ?

The man, imo, is a legend who transcended his sport and became the most famous and loved man on the planet, fact.

[sheepyvillian]

3 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Watch blood brothers on Netflix, also one night in miami 

He'll take some beating for the greatest sportsman imo I'd be happy for someone to try and change my mind but as someone using his stature to stand up for things outside of his sport I don't Ali can be topped 

In a time without social media. To be that recognised throughout the whole World. When you think about it, it beggars belief. 

No one's live light shined brighter, ever.

[foreveryoung]

Tyson was the top man for me. In his prime, aggressive and a very big puncher. It was said many of his fights were won, even before the opponent got in the ring, not many wanted to really face him. Bruno was scared the second time his fought him, it was lost before Tyson even landed a glove on him. In reality he really didn't really want that fight and it showed.

[sheepyvillian]

28 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Tyson was the top man for me. In his prime, aggressive and a very big puncher. It was said many of his fights were won, even before the opponent got in the ring, not many wanted to really face him. Bruno was scared the second time his fought him, it was lost before Tyson even landed a glove on him. In reality he really didn't really want that fight and it showed.

The only downside to Tyson's era was that there wasn't many great heavyweights to challenge him. Holmes was way past his prime and Spinks was just a bulked up light - heavyweight. Then after the rape conviction and the presence of the ubiquitous, Don King, Tyson was never the same fighter.  He's still the youngest fighter to ever win the heavyweight title at the age of twenty. That was some achievement in itself. Who can ever forget the way Trevor Berbick wobbled around that ring. Tyson sure did have some mean aura about him.

Edited October 10, 2021 by sheepyvillian

[foreveryoung]

There's no one really stand out around now to be fair, no real scary challenge for Fury, although If Wilder was a better boxer and had the stamina, I do believe he could have been number one.

I'm still in the boat where AJ was never going to be a stand out fighter, just a new style fighter to market, a cash cow if you like. I mean it's all about the money in the end now isn't it.

[Chindie]

Wilder might be done after that. He took a good hiding and Fury has now thoroughly proven his limits as a fighter. Mentally what does that do to you at the top? You took on someone, repeatedly, and couldn't beat him, and your trump card doesn't work to save you. And this time he's absolutely tore you apart and you've been knocked out for the first time.

It's got to hurt you mentally. Especially when you're so reliant on one trick to win.

[foreveryoung]

6 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Wilder might be done after that. He took a good hiding and Fury has now thoroughly proven his limits as a fighter. Mentally what does that do to you at the top? You took on someone, repeatedly, and couldn't beat him, and your trump card doesn't work to save you. And this time he's absolutely tore you apart and you've been knocked out for the first time.

It's got to hurt you mentally. Especially when you're so reliant on one trick to win.

I'd worry more about AJ, he had nothing in that fight against Usyk to make me think he could ever beat him, then agrees to take him on again, (or Hearn did it for him). If he loses, there's nothing else really for him, I mean Fury would take the piss.

[Guest av1]

Absolutely incredible fight. Credit to both guys. 

[Guest av1]

Do we think 2 more fights for Fury? Mandatory against DW then call it a day after Usyk/AJ ? 

[foreveryoung]

5 minutes ago, av1 said:

Do we think 2 more fights for Fury? Mandatory against DW then call it a day after Usyk/AJ ? 

I would say so. Can't see Usyk beating Fury, he's just to big, Fury that is.

Put Fury in with Jake Paul, or let Wilder loose on him

[The_Rev]

19 minutes ago, av1 said:

Do we think 2 more fights for Fury? Mandatory against DW then call it a day after Usyk/AJ ? 

 

I can see Fury going on too long.  Maybe 2/3 more at absolute elite level and then he'll probably tick along as a gatekeeper for a while. He's said he doesn't know what to do with his life without boxing, he'll always have a gym obvs but it's not the same as being a fighter.  

 

If Whyte becomes his mandatory then I can see that being the next fight and it being in the UK.  Fans have been begging for a stadium show and this seems like it could sell out Old Trafford or somewhere.  After that it's AJ or Usyk.   There's too much money in the AJ fight for it not to happen, that's selling gangbusters PPV all around the world.  

[HolteExile]

I'm not sure the prospect of a final bout against Usyk is enough to stay in the game for Fury.

Usyk is a good fighter, and worthy champion. 

But AJ is the one he wants. 

Usyk - like Fury - has that ringcraft and nous that AJ and Wilder don't possess and if Fury's not totally up for it it's a problem.

Could see Fury taking the Whyte fight and waiting on the outcome of the AJ v Usyk rematch. If it's AJ - all well and good. And a big final payday to follow. 

If it's Usyk - call it a day.  He could retire now and would have nothing left to prove. 

[sheepyvillian]

I think Fury v Usyk would be a terrible fight. They would both negate each other.

Edited October 10, 2021 by sheepyvillian

[Guest av1]

1 hour ago, The_Rev said:

 

I can see Fury going on too long.  Maybe 2/3 more at absolute elite level and then he'll probably tick along as a gatekeeper for a while. He's said he doesn't know what to do with his life without boxing, he'll always have a gym obvs but it's not the same as being a fighter.  

 

If Whyte becomes his mandatory then I can see that being the next fight and it being in the UK.  Fans have been begging for a stadium show and this seems like it could sell out Old Trafford or somewhere.  After that it's AJ or Usyk.   There's too much money in the AJ fight for it not to happen, that's selling gangbusters PPV all around the world.  

I read that, but I’m sure I’ve saw an interview with him saying he could quit today and be happy with his lot. He is such an unpredictable character that it’s difficult to really predict. 
 

It’s all about opinions of course but if AJ comes through the Usyk rematch which is a tall order in itself, I don’t really see him troubling Fury, so aside from the financial benefits, I wouldn’t see a great appetite for a rematch. So IMO I think Fury would retire as soon as he took all the belts. 

[VillaJ100]

7 hours ago, TreeVillan said:

Greatest human being of all time?

“A black man should be killed if he’s messing with a white woman,” he said. And it was the same for a white man making a pass at a black woman. “We’ll kill anybody who tries to mess around with our women.” But suppose the black woman wanted to be with the white man, the interviewer asked. “Then she dies,” Ali answered. “Kill her too.”

 

Honestly this is controversial, but... The film Ali could have really explored the darker side of the man. He was no saint especially when younger and basically used his second wife as a pimp/madam. His views on race etc were baffling. Also he was kind of middle class despite growing up in segregated Louisville. Frazier used to say whenever Ali called him an uncle Tom he'd just think of the whip scars on his granddad's back.

He seemed to wake up toward the end of his career so it could have even been like a spiritual redemption story. I don't think a film like that could have been made in his lifetime though. 

Fury has a figure like a bin bag full of cream but has stamina for days. Wilder trainer gave the game plan away before the fight 'we think we can take him out in 5 rounds'. He give it a good go in the 4th and I think Fury was buzzed for sure but not seriously hurt. The guy has supreme self confidence. He genuinely thinks he has God on his side. He's been no Saint either with some baffling comments but I think like Ali he's inspirational for overcoming mental health and substance problems 

[sheepyvillian]

3 hours ago, VillaJ100 said:

Honestly this is controversial, but... The film Ali could have really explored the darker side of the man. He was no saint especially when younger and basically used his second wife as a pimp/madam. His views on race etc were baffling. Also he was kind of middle class despite growing up in segregated Louisville. Frazier used to say whenever Ali called him an uncle Tom he'd just think of the whip scars on his granddad's back.

He seemed to wake up toward the end of his career so it could have even been like a spiritual redemption story. I don't think a film like that could have been made in his lifetime though. 

Fury has a figure like a bin bag full of cream but has stamina for days. Wilder trainer gave the game plan away before the fight 'we think we can take him out in 5 rounds'. He give it a good go in the 4th and I think Fury was buzzed for sure but not seriously hurt. The guy has supreme self confidence. He genuinely thinks he has God on his side. He's been no Saint either with some baffling comments but I think like Ali he's inspirational for overcoming mental health and substance problems 

What does being middle class have to do with anything?  So the implication from that statement is any black man at that time in America who was considered middle class was himself an uncle Tom . And what has Frazier being called an uncle Tom got to do with the whip Mark's on his Grandads back ? I suggest you look up the word uncle Tom..

Where do you think the name " Clay " came from, ? He was castigated for promoting self - sufficiency and black empowerment at a time when his people were being murdered by the very people who were there ostensibly to protect them. The hypocrisy of that castigation is astounding 

[VillaJ100]

I'm saying that despite growing up in a shit situation which I'm sure everyone who was black in the states had at that time, many had it much worse than Ali, and while he was calling people like Frazier an uncle Tom and a gorilla to get mostly white people to laugh at him, Frazier who grew up in abject poverty sharechopping, Ali was the guy with the white trainer, the Louisville Sponsoring Group funding his early career... It was hypocritical. I'm saying that's what Frazier said he thought of whenever Ali called him that. And while Ali's black empowerment wishes were noble throwing his lot in with the Nation of Islam wasn't the smartest move, I mean some of the ideas they had under Elijah Muhammad was so crackpot they make scientology seem normal. The same Elijah Muhammad who didn't even know the Islamic prayer ritual. This hypocracy regarding religion and his lifestyle was also called out by Malcolm X who highlighted his womanising amongst other things and was promptly booted out of all association with him. 

[The Fun Factory]

Fury is clearly the dominant boxer in the heavyweight division having seen off Wilder twice now.  To be that big and mobile is quite extraordinary. I am not sure what is end game is, perhaps finally the fight with Joshua but that could take a couple of years now and at present he would be the clear favourite so he may ask for a 60-40 purse which would complicate matters.

In regards to Ali yes he did hold questionable views sometimes and his behaviour to Frazier was a stain on his reputation but he was the greatest boxer at the heavyweight division for two generations. He helped make boxing what it is today as being a global sport based on trash talk, instead of being ruled by the mob. Its funny now he would probably look like a light heavy or cruiserweight when compared to the boxers now. Tyson was amazing until he met Don  King and basically peaked in his early twenties. Post Douglas he just fought for the money and lost all of the head movement from his early days.

Edited October 11, 2021 by The Fun Factory

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

I have watched it twice already,  even my wife thought it was an amazing fight.  I feel so lucky to have seen it.  I had goosepimples at the end and I forgot to breath at some points.

I don't think anyone could beat Fury,  now or historically.  He is too ring clever and boxing game clever and the base foundation of boxing skills he has are always there.  

I also think he would knock Joshua into another world well before an 8th round.