Jas10 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 (edited) There’s still time and the talent is there but… I get the impression he won’t be sticking around… he’s being brought on too late in games too with little chance of affecting them… doesn’t seem to be a favoured choice of Unai’s so far… would really like him to make a major impact but… we have other options (unless he’s genuinely going to cover CF and SS while Duran is injured at least but… others are being preferred atm)… and yeah, Emi on the way back too… We will have the numbers in terms of attacking players soon: Bailey Diaby Ramsey Rogers Buendia Tielemans Any attacking player who joins in future would have to be an upgrade on these… or we focus on other positions… Where would he fit in, in the future? He has to shine for us soon or he would only continue to be a bit-part player and I’m sure he & his agent wouldn’t go for that… Kind of feel sorry for him, hasn’t been getting a lot of time to impress… maybe when we play weaker opposition Edited February 10 by Jas10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 Has not offered a single thing all season. Can we all just be honest and say he was a panic loan signing (understandable and all for it even in hindsight) but he's a billion miles off being a PL player. Yes we said the same about Bailey etc but he at least had moments. Zaniolo hasn't had moment. I don't think with all the selling of youth players, and talk off FFP and increasing revenue we're going to be stupid enough to trigger a transfer. He's never going to make it and his appearances from here in will be "managed." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 (edited) Has at least shown flashes (and was quite effective earlier in the season, adding a bit of strength to our midfield/wing), two important goals against Mostar and Sheff Utd (good run and finish, did what others couldn’t that day)… He hasn’t had much time or opportunity imo… I still think he’s better option than Duran at least… Hasn’t been terrible or let us down, and he isn’t costing us much… it’s a loan… some of the criticism is a bit exaggerated, harsh or unfair… hasn’t been half as bad as some of our permanent or expensive signings in the past… But I admit, it doesn’t look likely (at this point) that he’ll be staying… if we’re gonna spend on the first team, we have to get better than we have in most cases… especially if it’s in forward/wide areas… Thoughts @romavillan @allani? Edited February 10 by Jas10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeroy Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 He's been no worse than Ramsey and Diaby this season. It's just Villa fans like to have a scapegoat and he's the selection of choice, probably because he's on loan. Our good results earlier in the season were actually when Zaniolo was in the team so I think him not getting a look in at the moment is very unfair and surprising treatment by Emery. I hope he gets more minutes on the right wing because he's looked good there when he's come on. I wonder if Rogers turns out to be worse than him which is quite probable given the level he has played at in his career so far if the fans will treat him the same as Zaniolo. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolteExile Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 I don't think that's right. As well as the goals and performances against Zrinjsk and Sheff Utd, he looked like a raging bull at the start of his stint with us. Burnleh and Chelsea away in quick succession and Luton at home I thought we had a player. If he'd scored in those games we might have had lift off. As it is, the betting scandal back home combined with the challenge of trying to adapt to a new country and new league looks like it's got to him. I wouldn't have been against him going back to Galatasary in Jan. But he's ours for now. His season could still turn with an inspirational key goal or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted February 10 VT Supporter Share Posted February 10 15 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Has at least shown flashes (and was quite effective earlier in the season, adding a bit of strength to our midfield/wing), two important goals against Mostar and Sheff Utd (good run and finish, did what others couldn’t that day)… He hasn’t had much time or opportunity imo… I still think he’s better option than Duran at least… Hasn’t been terrible or let us down, and he isn’t costing us much… it’s a loan… some of the criticism is a bit exaggerated, harsh or unfair… hasn’t been half as bad as some of our permanent or expensive signings in the past… But I admit, it doesn’t look likely (at this point) that he’ll be staying… if we’re gonna spend on the first team, we have to get better than we have in most cases… especially if it’s in forward/wide areas… Thoughts @romavillan @allani? Not fulfilled his promise, mitigated a bit by the only run in the side being out of position where he helped us after the newcastle and pool defeats to put the foundations of our season together. Nothing spectacular but did a job. Scored a couple of important goals, showed flashes of brilliance but nothing consistent and now it's hard for him coming on for a few minutes. He needs to start taking these difficult chances to shine though. If Bailey had been a loan on similar terms, there would have been a clamour to send him back. Zaniolo still could click somewhere and be a fantastic player, it would be a shame if he did and he wasn't wearing a Villa shirt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STO Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 I'd guess that Zaniolo is feeling as frustrated with himself as we are with him. It's just not worked out so far. I'm hoping that it does, but he needs game time and we can't afford to put him in because he's not consistent enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 8 minutes ago, romavillan said: Not fulfilled his promise, mitigated a bit by the only run in the side being out of position where he helped us after the newcastle and pool defeats to put the foundations of our season together. Nothing spectacular but did a job. Scored a couple of important goals, showed flashes of brilliance but nothing consistent and now it's hard for him coming on for a few minutes. He needs to start taking these difficult chances to shine though. If Bailey had been a loan on similar terms, there would have been a clamour to send him back. Zaniolo still could click somewhere and be a fantastic player, it would be a shame if he did and he wasn't wearing a Villa shirt. I think that’s fair… but I still think he could be given more time… coming on for the last 5-10mins of games is almost a waste of time… that’s what he seems to have been reduced to lately… and with other players returning from injury and loss of form… it’s going to get more difficult unless he does something special… Maybe he’ll get more opportunities against weaker opposition… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picicata Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 28 minutes ago, Leeroy said: He's been no worse than Ramsey and Diaby this season. It's just Villa fans like to have a scapegoat and he's the selection of choice, probably because he's on loan Diaby's stats would suggest he's been far more effective than Zaniolo this season even if he is taking longer to settle properly than we all hoped No harm done, he was a loan to cover Beundia who will be back before too long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeroy Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 15 minutes ago, picicata said: Diaby's stats would suggest he's been far more effective than Zaniolo this season even if he is taking longer to settle properly than we all hoped No harm done, he was a loan to cover Beundia who will be back before too long I hear what you're saying but Diaby has played three times the amount of minutes in the league this season and his stats are skewed somewhat by his great early start where he got something like 2 goals and 3 assists in his first 4-5 games. Since gameweek 5 his stats have been poor considering he's started a lot of games for us. I know he's got stick too but with him there's a belief he'll come good whereas everyone has written Zaniolo off. I don't argue against Zaniolo's stats, they are very poor for an attacking player, 1 goal and 0 assists in the league for a player in his position isn't good enough and he gets silly bookings for petulance which is another thing he needs to sort out. But I do think there's a very skillful player there with a unique skillset and our results when he's started have actually been very good. He's also got into great positions when he's played and caused problems which is a good sign, it's just the end product hasn't been there unfortunately. Unai needs to use him more if he's going to, 5-10 minutes at the end of games is pointless, although he's been making subs a lot later in general recently which is hard to understand given the performances. I understand if we don't sign Zaniolo permanently but I still think we need to target another creative player in the summer as Buendia will be back from a long term injury and can be very hit and miss himself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 1 hour ago, Leeroy said: He's been no worse than Ramsey and Diaby this season. Ramsey has been out of the game for a looong time, and objectively Diaby has been much better in creating chances, assisting, and goal scoring. With Diaby it's not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 (edited) 2 hours ago, Jas10 said: Has at least shown flashes (and was quite effective earlier in the season, adding a bit of strength to our midfield/wing), two important goals against Mostar and Sheff Utd (good run and finish, did what others couldn’t that day)… He hasn’t had much time or opportunity imo… I still think he’s better option than Duran at least… Hasn’t been terrible or let us down, and he isn’t costing us much… it’s a loan… some of the criticism is a bit exaggerated, harsh or unfair… hasn’t been half as bad as some of our permanent or expensive signings in the past… But I admit, it doesn’t look likely (at this point) that he’ll be staying… if we’re gonna spend on the first team, we have to get better than we have in most cases… especially if it’s in forward/wide areas… Thoughts @romavillan @allani? Remember that my comments are coming from a position where my introduction to Zaniolo was with his emergence at Roma. I have been a huge fan since - I thought he was showing 18 months ago that he'd returned to approaching his best from his nasty injuries - bearing in mind that the way Roma played under Mourinho was less suited to him than the way that they played before his injury. He got really badly treated by Mourinho and elements of the Roma fanbase because he wanted a new contract and turned down the first offer (which Mourinho took as a personal snub). He was probably THE most promising player I have ever seen break through the ranks of a team that I support. I know some people said when we were linked that his stats weren't that good (goals / assists) but that misses two key points (1) his age and (2) the number of shots that he had that resulted in goals for Roma that didn't get designated at assists (he led Serie A in both seasons before his injury). Remember this was a kid of 19 coming through one of top leagues in Europe - everyone here was talking about him either for Roma or for Italy. Yes he had faults (what player doesn't at 19) but he had seemingly everything he needed to be one of the best players in Europe. You don't get lauded by the likes of Mancini, Baggio and Totti unless you are seriously good. When we were first interested I ended my "assessment" of the potential signing as follows: Quote Listen it feels like a gamble to me. We could end up with a Jack like talent. Or we could end up with someone who can never quite recapture what might have been. He's well-known to Monchi and so I'd hope that he'd be able to tell which of those paths is more likely and make the appropriate decision. His start at Roma was nothing short of sensational. If we get that player then boy are we in for some fun over the next few seasons. I really want to give him the benefit of the doubt and say that the problems with the betting scandal, the hangover of his departure from Roma, arriving in a new country, being played out of position, etc could / should be mitigating circumstances that mean he could still come good. And he could. I am sure that he's over-thinking things and is probably putting too much pressure on himself. However, there's been precious few times when he's looked anything like the player he was. He was unlucky not to catch a couple of breaks early on but with Diaby and Bailey - even when they struggled, I think you could see that there was something there. It really pains me to say this but Zaniolo just looks lost. Can we afford to sign him permanently and hope that he finds himself? I'm just not seeing it - he seems to be struggling with every part of his game. I really want him to come good (for him and for Italy) but I have to say that I think the best thing for him now would probably be to return to Italy - probably on loan to a mid-table team who like to play on the break where he can be used it the same role he played when he started at Roma. It would be interesting to see whether that would help him recapture his confidence and then see how much form came back. Whether we (Villa) want to retain a position whereby if that happens we can try him again in the PL I don't know. It's still possible that everything clicks and he ends up at a top team in Serie A and claims a starting position with Italy. But I just don't quite see it working here unfortunately. That's a tough write - as I would have loved it for him to rekindle his career at Villa and be the player who made everyone want to go to Villa Park just to see him play (and so that @romavillan and I could then say every week "told you so"!!). I have everything crossed hoping that it comes good. But my head is saying that this is one of those gambles that hasn't quite come off and it's probably best for all parties to move on in the summer. It felt like a gamble that could be a 5/10 or a 9/10 - it looks distinctly like the latter. But I still think it was a good gamble to take. We're operating in a space where we have to try signings / loans like this - some won't work but we only need to land 1 and it could be transformational. Edited February 10 by allani 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeroy Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 40 minutes ago, Mic09 said: Ramsey has been out of the game for a looong time, and objectively Diaby has been much better in creating chances, assisting, and goal scoring. With Diaby it's not even close. At the risk of repeating myself you have to look at minutes played. Diaby has nearly 1500 minutes in the league, Zaniolo has 500. If Zaniolo had 1500 minutes there's a good chance he'd have the same number of goals. Diaby also cost us a lot more money. Zaniolo should have more assists, on that I agree. His decision making in the box is a major problem and I'm surprised it's not been worked on because I think it can be fixed. I'm not saying we should buy him, at this moment I wouldn't, but he's not the only one who's underperformed in that area of the pitch and this should be pointed out. I also think he needs more gametime because coming on for 5 minutes what exactly is he going to be able to do with so little time on the pitch and if our players aren't performing like they didn't against Newcastle and Chelsea they shouldn't be given preferential treatment. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlobalVillan Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 This guy is one big disappointment. I do not see him doing anything valuable either for the team or individually whilst he is here. I would argue he would struggle in the Championship and the more minutes he plays for us, the less chance we have of finishing 5th. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 On 10/02/2024 at 10:07, rodders0223 said: Has not offered a single thing all season. Can we all just be honest and say he was a panic loan signing (understandable and all for it even in hindsight) but he's a billion miles off being a PL player. Yes we said the same about Bailey etc but he at least had moments. Zaniolo hasn't had moment. I don't think with all the selling of youth players, and talk off FFP and increasing revenue we're going to be stupid enough to trigger a transfer. He's never going to make it and his appearances from here in will be "managed." If we make 4th by a point his last minute header could be the difference! Agree he’s not been good enough though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvonVillain Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 On 10/02/2024 at 10:22, Leeroy said: It's just Villa fans like to have a scapegoat and he's the selection of choice, probably because he's on loan. Permanent signings take less shit from fans?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 Why are there certain posters on here that when a player isn't scoring, assisting or contributing in anyway loves to throw out the scapegoat comment. Nobody is scapegoating anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodders0223 Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 It's Zaniolo's fault and Zaniolo's fault alone as to why we've had some bad results the past month! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leeroy Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 9 minutes ago, rodders0223 said: It's Zaniolo's fault and Zaniolo's fault alone as to why we've had some bad results the past month! What on earth are you talking about, guy hasn’t even been on the pitch. Jeez, I despair with our fanbase sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted February 11 Share Posted February 11 1 hour ago, rodders0223 said: It's Zaniolo's fault and Zaniolo's fault alone as to why we've had some bad results the past month! Ere ere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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