Future Club Crest & Brand Identity

[OutByEaster?]

The first thing I like about the survey is this:

"The Club is actively considering a return to the shield crest shape"

Not necessarily out of any preference for crests (although I like a crest) but because it's actually honest - it says "we have a preference, we want to do something and we're checking with you" - it's not a long lie - it doesn't say that my voice counts as much as theirs or that they'll make the badge fans want; it says that they as a senior team have an aim and a plan they want to carry out and that they'll listen but if they believe in their way, they'll do it anyway.

I actually much prefer that. 

 

[Stephen_Evans]

4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I assume it's "prepared" they were referencing.

I said no. The more stuff they try and shoehorn into the badge the worse it will look.

Remember the original lerner badge?

 

I still remember the first time I set eyes on that thing and just feeling stunned.  And not in a good way.

[OutByEaster?]

I'm not sure why it's important they know how far away I live from Villa Park.

Are they making a really big badge that can be seen from miles away?

 

[BOF]

Kristen Ritter sums up my thoughts on this whole process.

[Stephen_Evans]

A shield could mean anything.  It could mean something classy like the 1957 shape or something turgid like the current shield.

[HKP90]

10 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

The questionnaire has worried me.

It sounded like the one we did when Lerner changed the badge.

Do you want a star? Do you want a lion? Do you want a shield? etc

So they were left with a list of thing the fans supposedly want, chucked them all together, and ended up with a pile of shit. But went with it without anyone saying "does this ACTUALLY look good?"

 

Here's an idea, football fans are idiots (me included) and most of us aren't designers. We don't know what looks good. Just **** do it yourself and get us to vote on a few designs to give us the illusion of having input

That's what they did last time mostly.

[OutByEaster?]

Question 7 is a doozy.

Choose between a badge that:

"Builds a picture of Aston Villa's heritage as a traditional football club"

or

"Represents Aston Villa as a progressive modern football club"

I reckon we could have a 200 page thread on that question on it's own!

 

 

[Steero113]

1 hour ago, It's Your Round said:

As a “thank you” for completing the survey they’re giving us the chance to win a signed shirt. Must be signed with one of those special waterproof pens then. 

Really rub it in. 

If you win, ask them to sign a 22/23 shirt instead 

[BOF]

5 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

The first thing I like about the survey is this:

"The Club is actively considering a return to the shield crest shape"

Not necessarily out of any preference for crests (although I like a crest) but because it's actually honest - it says "we have a preference, we want to do something and we're checking with you" - it's not a long lie - it doesn't say that my voice counts as much as theirs or that they'll make the badge fans want; it says that they as a senior team have an aim and a plan they want to carry out and that they'll listen but if they believe in their way, they'll do it anyway.

I actually much prefer that. 

 

It's a much healthier process because it means we won't get something designed by committee that pleases nobody.

[allani]

51 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

They part implemented it. 

It might really be truer to say they didn't implement it at all other than on the thing they'd already spent money having produced and couldn't stop, the kit. If they'd had time to stop the badge appearing on the kit, they would have done. 

The badge was introduced in May (in theory with a big launch at the Brighton game and then it appearing everywhere) that didn't happen and the 'everywhere' element was removed in July - prior to that, the owners were behind it and the fans had voted for it. The only thing that changed was the senior management team.

The idea that they've given it some time to assess its impact commercially and been disappointed is laughable - Mr Heck doesn't like it and feels he can do better. There's every chance he can, but I think we're probably better off without the soft soap. Assess its commercial impact seems to have consisted of no more than asking Mr Heck "Do you like this?".

We are where we are, and I'd hope that what we get is a nice badge and a set of design objects that give us some coherence and presence as a brand, same as I hoped last time - but what I think we should really be learning is that we shouldn't be letting this club get into a position where the opinion of a single man can change that outcome of that process on a whim. 

Let's see what gets designed, hopefully we all like it, and then lets protect it from the next guy, so that we have something that's Aston Villa and not "Randy's Villa" or "Purslow's Villa" if Mr Heck gets the boot in eighteen months time, I don't want the next guy starting from scratch because he's a big fan of the Juve monstrosity. The badge should be ours, it should be part of the football club, it shouldn't be an ego project for CEO's.

I know you were closer to the original consultation than me.  But the impression I get is still that it is much more likely that NSWE didn't like the direction we'd taken rather than the plug being pulled by Heck.  It follows a similar pattern to the managerial change to me.  There's no way that we can sack Gerrard one day and within 72 hours have identified, interviewed and appointed a manager like Emery and also recruited most of his backroom team.  That had to be something that had been lined up before - maybe the owners were hoping to get to the World Cup break and make the changes then.  But such a seismic change of approach on the field is not the work of 2 or 3 days.

Similarly, if their concerns around Purslow were around footballing matters - the appointment of someone with no prior involvement in football or British sport doesn't make sense.  The fact that we've appointed someone into that role who is internationally recognised for his brand development work and for his ability to land big sponsorship deals - just makes me think that those must have been the top of the issue list that the owners had when they were looking for someone to come in.  Why do that if the owners thought that the brand development project already in place was going well and was delivering what was needed?  Why do that if they were not concerned that the biggest front of shirt sponsorship deal we could land was with some highly suspect gambling firm?  Maybe they should have pulled the plug sooner - before the badge was added to this season's shirts.  Maybe they were unsure and wanted to see what the general reaction was first to see whether they were wrong? 

However, to my way of thinking - the things that stand out on Heck's CV are branding and sponsorship.  There's precious little else to suggest that his name would be top of the list of football CEO type appointments.  Therefore, I assume that the owners must have had significant concerns about those two areas in order to appoint him and that therefore they must have either known that he was likely to abandon the rebranding project OR have appointed it so that they could abandon the rebranding project before they wasted too much money on it.  Either way - I think this is an NSWE decision NOT a Heck decision.  Which will hopefully mean that if Heck does a good job then (a) he won't have gone in 18 months or (b) he goes in 18 months because he's got the branding / sponsorship thing headed in the right direction and we've got capable people at the club who can continue that work into the future whilst Heck goes off to find another sports club in chaos.  Which leaves the only potential negative risk that he doesn't do a good job and no-one likes the new branding and we fail to land any meaningful sponsorship - however, given his record that would seem to be a low(ish) risk, limited primarily to to fact that his success to date has been in the USA and what works there might not work here. 

[HKP90]

4 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

I'm not sure why it's important they know how far away I live from Villa Park.

Are they making a really big badge that can be seen from miles away?

 

Is there a link to this survey? Can't find it on the official website.

[MrBlack]

18 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I assume it's "prepared" they were referencing.

I said no. The more stuff they try and shoehorn into the badge the worse it will look.

Remember the original lerner badge?

 

Avfc, the font, the lion, the colours... man that was truly horrific. 

I'm hoping they get enough of a range of responses from the survey that let's them say... "well they all want something different, so let's go with what looks good".

[allani]

5 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Question 7 is a doozy.

Choose between a badge that:

"Builds a picture of Aston Villa's heritage as a traditional football club"

or

"Represents Aston Villa as a progressive modern football club"

I reckon we could have a 200 page thread on that question on it's own!

12 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

The first thing I like about the survey is this:

"The Club is actively considering a return to the shield crest shape"

Not necessarily out of any preference for crests (although I like a crest) but because it's actually honest - it says "we have a preference, we want to do something and we're checking with you" - it's not a long lie - it doesn't say that my voice counts as much as theirs or that they'll make the badge fans want; it says that they as a senior team have an aim and a plan they want to carry out and that they'll listen but if they believe in their way, they'll do it anyway.

I actually much prefer that. 

I have to say (not having seen the full survey) that I like both of these questions. 

I personally prefer a crest shape to a round badge - as long as the crest we adopt is different and ideally has a strong connection to the club (like the gaslamp or the diamond that @Teale's 'tache).  It would be great if (in a couple of years) when football fans see just the outline of the crest then they immediately recognise it as Villa - even without colours, words or images.  Newcastle, Man Utd, Liverpool, Spurs have this to some extent or another. 

The question on tradition v modern is also great.  I mean personally I would want a badge that gives a nod to both - something that alludes to our history but in a modern, progressive way.  But this gives the designers something to work with rather than just I want a round badge with a lion in the middle.  It also means that we can start to build a story behind the brand - which is the stuff that marketeers love.  But it will shape the whole way we launch the brand, how we use to it engage potential commercial partners, etc.

[Hank Scorpio]

43 minutes ago, Stephen_Evans said:

Did anyone take any screenshots of the questions?  I’ve not received my email.

I've not had an email either?

[OutByEaster?]

10 minutes ago, allani said:

But the impression I get is still that it is much more likely that NSWE didn't like the direction we'd taken rather than the plug being pulled by Heck.

It's the direction they'd taken - the round badge in use currently is the one that Nassef and Wes commissioned, their choice, their choice to involve fans, their choice to engage one of the worlds foremost brand design companies - all of that was undertaken for them by a CEO with a reputation for undue influence on this type of thing, but the decision was theirs, signed off by them, with a launch signed off by them, coordinated by them and the design company and due to take place in the time after Purslow left - Heck has changed their minds and not only changed their minds, but persuaded a couple of very successful billionaires that he knows better than they do, better than the design team and better than the supporter base - it says really good things about him that they were prepared to accept that and then bumble through this season's brand disaster in order to support him on it. 

Our owners have placed an enormous amount of trust in Mr Heck.

[MrBlack]

On 28/09/2023 at 15:31, Teale's 'tache said:

Does this cover both the progressive club (when we take the lion out and use it on its own) and the heritage angles? I feel like anything that doesn't look like this is going to be a disappointment. 

I really like the font too.

Shield/gaslamp hybrid,  just enough of a nod that those that know, know and those that don't, don't wonder what the f it is. 

Proper gold lion (not yellow).

It's just beautiful. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

8 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

Question 7 is a doozy.

Choose between a badge that:

"Builds a picture of Aston Villa's heritage as a traditional football club"

or

"Represents Aston Villa as a progressive modern football club"

I reckon we could have a 200 page thread on that question on it's own!

 

 

Choose B... and we may get a Lion who identifies as a Ferret.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

6 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

I've not had an email either?

Nor me, i'm wondering if, as last time, it's only for season ticket holders etc?

[alreadyexists]

50 minutes ago, Pongo Waring said:

Happy the club have decided to go back to the shield crest. It's time to get our identity back and look onto the future. 

What makes you say that? Is it mentioned in the questions (I haven’t don’t it yet)?

[allani]

28 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I assume it's "prepared" they were referencing.

I said no. The more stuff they try and shoehorn into the badge the worse it will look.

Remember the original lerner badge?

I don't think that you need every component of the brand to appear on the badge in order for it to be part of the brand.  I quite like "Prepared" but I also like "Part of the Pride".  I'd be very happy to have one of those and include it within our branding (for example as a design feature within the shirt rather than included in the badge - i.e. on the hem around the bottom of the sleeve or the neck or at the bottom of the shirt).  Another component that you can use in isolation around the ground, on SM, clothing, etc - that all ties stuff back to Villa without having to use our name, badge, etc all the time.