Missing Submersible

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, Mic09 said:

Yup, there is a line somewhere. I guess if you would like to go into the depths of the ocean in a submarine, and find a legitimate business that has offered such expeditions in the past, how much research do you do?

If someone goes sky diving, do they check the legal paper work on the parachute?

You are there with an expert, someone who has done it before, it's a legitimate business and you pay a lot to go underwater. 

I honestly doubt many people would question the set up of the sub. I'm sure they have a funky website and reviews from previous expeditions backed by profiles of experienced experts.

They should. but they probably wouldn't. If you go to a travelling fair with your kids and the kid wants to go on a massive swing thing, do you ask them for the technical check schedule? 

I'm not so sure about this.  Billionaires tend to be followed around by teams of very clever people.  They will have had lawyers go over all the paperwork, insurance companies to disuss it with who I am sure will have had all sorts of questions.

Either someone has not done a great deal of due diligence on their behalf, or they've had the warnings and not heeded them.

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, LondonLax said:

I imagine other operators would be pretty pissed off at a rogue outfit having such a high profile failure.

Yes, I was just thinking about some of these holiday resort type subs with the glass bubble viewing window.  I would imagine insurance for a start is going to get a lot more difficult to get, if not impossible.  People will be more reluctant to use them full stop.  Some totally unconnected people may lose a livelihood over this.

[Mic09]

1 minute ago, Demitri_C said:

i hate flying so there is no chance i would get a private jet

Accidents happen but something like this more risky because if you get a accident on the road you can likely survive if something goes wrong in this instance your dead thats the difference 

But that's their decision. I'd wager those billionaires did hundreds of amazing things prior to this to make the most of their lives.  One person can spend their whole life on the sofa, the other person goes into space.

Personally, I am more on the active side of things, but that's my call. If I die riding my road bike downhill at 40 miles an hour, it's my decision. 

But I am aware of the risks involved. 

[Mic09]

3 minutes ago, sidcow said:

I'm not so sure about this.  Billionaires tend to be followed around by teams of very clever people.  They will have had lawyers go over all the paperwork, insurance companies to disuss it with who I am sure will have had all sorts of questions.

Either someone has not done a great deal of due diligence on their behalf, or they've had the warnings and not heeded them.

Maybe, but a lawyer is not gonna call a millionaire and say 'You know that perfectly legal trip you booked with that established business with a history of deep dive travel? Don't do it'.

I guess anyone getting into a tin can and going 3km underwater is aware it's a pretty unforgiving thing to do. Regardless of regulation and safety checks. It's just not a safe thing to do, just like space travel. 

[sidcow]

12 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

But if you were a billionaire, you'd get in a private helicopter to get to the next island in the Bahamas, and then it would crash.

And people on a football forum would discuss why people get in helicopters and question your decisions.

People die. Accidents happen. People do different things. I think that looking for an underlining reason is pointless. 

I wouldn't fly in a helicopter unless it was an emergency.  Those things crash all the bloody time.  Way too many moving parts that all have to work together as well.

Another thing I wouldn't get in is a single engine propeller light aircraft.

For a while I insured a few of them flying out of a local acrodrome.  My ear started to prick up every time I heard about a light aircraft crash, and there was a slow dawning realisation about just how many of them do crash.  It's a lot, you listen out in future.

Edited June 23, 2023 by sidcow

[Mic09]

Just now, sidcow said:

I wouldn't fly in a helicopter unless it was an emergency.  This things crash all the bloody time.  Way too many moving parts that all have to work together as well.

Another thing I wouldn't get in is a single engine propeller light aircraft.

For a while I insured a few of them flying out of a local acrodrome.  My ear started to prick up every time I heard about a light aircraft crash, and there was a slow dawning realisation about just how many of them do crash.  It's a lot, you listen out in future.

I'm sure, I guess even every stewardess or footballer travelling by regular planes on frequent basis will have stories of dangerous things happening.

Deep sea travel is even more dangerous. And I am sure everyone involved was aware of that. 

But it was their decision to do it. 

[cheltenham_villa]

why did the world put so much effort and cost into trying to find 8 millionaires lost so far under sea? Compare it to the efforts and attention given to the 500 people who lost lives in the Mediterranean in the week. Disappointing state of our world. 

[Mic09]

1 minute ago, cheltenham_villa said:

why did the world put so much effort and cost into trying to find 8 millionaires lost so far under sea? Compare it to the efforts and attention given to the 500 people who lost lives in the Mediterranean in the week. Disappointing state of our world. 

There is a perfectly simple reasonable answer, but the morals suggest something is not right in the world. 

[Demitri_C]

13 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

But that's their decision. I'd wager those billionaires did hundreds of amazing things prior to this to make the most of their lives.  One person can spend their whole life on the sofa, the other person goes into space.

Personally, I am more on the active side of things, but that's my call. If I die riding my road bike downhill at 40 miles an hour, it's my decision. 

But I am aware of the risks involved. 

I was merely pointing out i just wouldnt do the same thats me esp on something where i know the risks of if something went wrong my odds are im dead. Na not for me. Lifes to precious.

Yeah but if you get hit on your bike your likley to survive down there you wont i wouldnt take the risk

[Demitri_C]

4 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said:

why did the world put so much effort and cost into trying to find 8 millionaires lost so far under sea? Compare it to the efforts and attention given to the 500 people who lost lives in the Mediterranean in the week. Disappointing state of our world. 

Such a good point

[mjmooney]

2 hours ago, av1 said:

I go mountain climbing every year, and jumped out of a plane 13 times 

Not superstitious, then? 

I'll bet there were some black humour comments before that 13th jump. 

[mjmooney]

12 hours ago, foreveryoung said:

Unreal that creatures actually live down there.

How do they do it? I easily understand that they use other senses than sight to find food, that's pretty simple evolution. But if the reinforced titanium hull of a submarine can't take that pressure, how the hell does a flesh and blood organic creature manage it? 

[Guest av1]

42 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

How do they do it? I easily understand that they use other senses than sight to find food, that's pretty simple evolution. But if the reinforced titanium hull of a submarine can't take that pressure, how the hell does a flesh and blood organic creature manage it? 

I think it’s because their bodies are made up of water rather than air so it is equal to its surroundings.

[Guest av1]

49 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Not superstitious, then? 

I'll bet there were some black humour comments before that 13th jump. 

Absolutely. Strangely I was absolutely fine for the first 9/10 jumps. Of course there was a few nerves but it was largely excitement. 
 

For the last couple I really was nervous, almost like my mind was saying ‘ok Colin you’ve had your fun, now let’s call it a day’ 

 

 

[Tom13]

That Stockton Rush got off lightly - he deserved to feel guilt for cutting corners - risking and losing lives by ignoring what appears to be several people the equipment wasn't fit for purpose. Disgusting.

[tomav84]

2 hours ago, Mic09 said:

But if you were a billionaire, you'd get in a private helicopter to get to the next island in the Bahamas, and then it would crash.

And people on a football forum would discuss why people get in helicopters and question your decisions.

People die. Accidents happen. People do different things. I think that looking for an underlining reason is pointless. 

that very thing happened to the leicester owner, and i didn't see many on here saying "why did he get a helicopter?". they're regulated by the same strict safety rules that govern the planes we get on to go on holiday. similar with sky diving, bungee jumping, or fairground rides.

the key difference with this, is that the regulations for this sort of thing are full of holes apparently, one of which being that this takes place in international waters where you can basically do what you like.

but it is hindsight...did the folks on board know that these letters had been written to this company saying their sub was unsafe? did they know of the staff being sacked from the company for raising concerns? probably not and probably wouldn't have set foot inside it had they have known. it's the typical stuff that comes out after the event

[tomav84]

2 hours ago, cheltenham_villa said:

why did the world put so much effort and cost into trying to find 8 millionaires lost so far under sea? Compare it to the efforts and attention given to the 500 people who lost lives in the Mediterranean in the week. Disappointing state of our world. 

the problem is that this gathered such public interest due to the abnormal nature of it. it got clicks and views of the news articles...it's (for lack of a better word) exciting. 5 people in a sub, with the oxygen level counting down...it made for a good story, a real life suspense movie.

that being said, if the navy released that little nugget of info about hearing the bloody thing implode at the very same time that the signal was lost, no one would've bothered looking. i just hope no lives were lost due to resources being deployed for this lost cause

[chrisp65]

Interesting tweek of wording on the BBC, we’ve gone from ‘feared lost’ to ‘died’, but today it’s ‘killed’.

 

 

[delboy54]

3 hours ago, sidcow said:

Yes, I was just thinking about some of these holiday resort type subs with the glass bubble viewing window.  I would imagine insurance for a start is going to get a lot more difficult to get, if not impossible.  People will be more reluctant to use them full stop.  Some totally unconnected people may lose a livelihood over this.

Wife, me and the daughter went in a sub in Tenerife on holiday a few years ago, we must have been about 10m deep in total. There seemed to be a lot more technical and safety gadgets on board and it did have the look of a real sub.....the opposite of the titan....

[KentVillan]

Ironic that this thread is tagged as “Breaking”