OutByEaster? Posted June 22, 2023 Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2023 I think it's important to note that both the sponsorship deals and the crest are inherited objects for Mr Heck - he had nothing to do with putting those into place. He's far too professional to give away how he feels about that to a bunch of fans on a teams call, but I guess you can draw some conclusions by the club's actions. In terms of a couple of things on here that people have asked, Mr Heck is employed by Aston Villa football club, he has no involvement in any of the other teams in the V-Sport group and he was the person who represented us at the recent Premier League meeting. For the deals, I'd have to say personally I'm completely against the BK8 deal - entirely on the basis of who they are and what they do, I don't think it's a deal we should have considered - and that's not just about gambling, these are as similar to William Hill as the Proclaimers are to the Krays. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 22, 2023 Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2023 37 minutes ago, allani said: The sponsor has been known for some time - as have the reasons (i.e. they pay significantly more than any other type of company for clubs of our stature). I would be very surprised if the sponsorship deal ends up being "multi-year" and expect that we will see a very different company on our shirts next season. Just as a note on this, you could say that the deal has already been multi-year - Kaiyun, last years sleeve sponsor are the same company as BK8 and W88 who were on the front of our shirts in our first year back in the Premier league are also the same company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 Just now, OutByEaster? said: Just as a note on this, you could say that the deal has already been multi-year - Kaiyun, last years sleeve sponsor are the same company as BK8 and W88 who were on the front of our shirts in our first year back in the Premier league are also the same company. OK that kind of sounds like a cryptic clue from 3-2-1. I now have no idea whether you have just hinted at a shiny new car or a snazzy rubbish bin.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan-scott Posted June 22, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted June 22, 2023 9 minutes ago, abdomlahor said: Stands to reason that he might not like the badge either? Dunno about Chris Heck, looks more like Big ‘Eck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WallisFrizz Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 7 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: Just as a note on this, you could say that the deal has already been multi-year - Kaiyun, last years sleeve sponsor are the same company as BK8 and W88 who were on the front of our shirts in our first year back in the Premier league are also the same company. So…we can get rid of it early? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 6 minutes ago, nick76 said: Yes they won’t know our history, our founding the football league and European cup but they will know who we are, even teens. Making changes to the badge won’t make any difference to that will it? They will know who Aston Villa are, they just won’t know our history from decades ago or hundred years ago but they will know who we are now. Even if we become successful they won’t really know our history really. My teenage nephew who is a season ticket holder is still learning a lot about our history because teenagers only really care about the moment, so I don’t expect non-villa fan teenagers to know our deep history or care. As you say younger people don’t register before the PL or Champions League and when they do they don’t care or ignore it. I suspect the average American hasn't heard of us. I suspect that Heck being an American can see a great opportunity for selling us / marketing us to Americans. That's just one example of a market I think we could exploit. I think the new badge is dull and too safe. I think the same about the new kit. I suspect that we'll be looking for both to be more distinctive (whilst still being in keeping with our history). Maybe I have taken the conversation down a rabbit hole by saying that one of my beefs with the badge is that it doesn't say Aston Villa Football Club (or Aston Villa FC). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 22, 2023 Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, WallisFrizz said: So…we can get rid of it early? I have no idea In fairness, if the wind changes in China, Macau, the houses of Parliament or the gangland of the Far East, this company might not even last three years! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, allani said: I suspect the average American hasn't heard of us. I suspect that Heck being an American can see a great opportunity for selling us / marketing us to Americans. That's just one example of a market I think we could exploit. I think the new badge is dull and too safe. I think the same about the new kit. I suspect that we'll be looking for both to be more distinctive (whilst still being in keeping with our history). Maybe I have taken the conversation down a rabbit hole by saying that one of my beefs with the badge is that it doesn't say Aston Villa Football Club (or Aston Villa FC). Average American if they have an interest in football will have heard of us because the PL is streamed over there and even 20 years when I was over there, football fans had heard of us. If they don’t watch football then no they probably haven’t heard of us. Yes Heck’s job to getting our name out there and increase our brand and revenue…I’m just not sure adding ‘Football Club’ makes any difference to all that. I don’t agree about your description of the badge but we just disagree and it’s just an opinion. I also have seen so many unique or wild or different badges that shows it doesn’t always work and probably has the opposite effect just like that Iceland one doing the rounds yesterday. So I disagree with many of your points….but we just have different views on this, neither right or wrong. Heck looks like he’s taking us on a different direction which you agree with. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 2 hours ago, nick76 said: I’m not really arguing about the decisions re his involvement but one of the key things under him is marketing and communication and today was his first step in that arena and it was a debacle. The communication was a total misstep. If he didn’t know the sponsorship was a sore point with fans that’s an issue, if he did know then it’s bad marketing to release the official statement on that on the day of a kit launch. It puts fans in a poor mood when it you want anything but that on a launch. The same with throwing in about the badges, why did they need to throw that in today to muddy the kit launch. It’s bad marketing/communication and it’s not a good sign for the first major thing. Both the sponsorship and badge thing could’ve been done differently both in terms of the days they were announced and especially how the badge was announced could’ve been explained in a much better way/format/environment. The decisions may have not been his although the badge thing is surely but giving him the benefit of doubt on that. How and when it was communicated is definitely down to him and it has been a bad day at the office I’m afraid. Absolutely valid point. He inherited all this but chose when each got revealed. He must have known the sponsor was not well receieved (he should be instantly sacked if he did not), and the idea that releasing this on the morning you reveal the new kit was the right thing to do is laughable. As for the the badge, I guess whenever they reveal that only the kit will feature it, it is going to put a dampener on the kit reveal. Probably better not to do it after so fans know what they're buying. But arguably, better not to do it long before so it massively undermines the kit reveal hype before it's even happened. As to whether its the right call, I am optimistically thinking he's made the most of a bad situation that he inherited, and we'll see the benefits of that next season. I can only hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, MrBlack said: Absolutely valid point. He inherited all this but chose when each got revealed. He must have known the sponsor was not well receieved (he should be instantly sacked if he did not), and the idea that releasing this on the morning you reveal the new kit was the right thing to do is laughable. As for the the badge, I guess whenever they reveal that only the kit will feature it, it is going to put a dampener on the kit reveal. Probably better not to do it after so fans know what they're buying. But arguably, better not to do it long before so it massively undermines the kit reveal hype before it's even happened. As to whether its the right call, I am optimistically thinking he's made the most of a bad situation that he inherited, and we'll see the benefits of that next season. I can only hope. This is like blaming Monchi for Asensio going to PSG or for us not signing anyone yet. We don't know if Chris Heck " chose " anything or not. We have no idea what goes on or is happening behind the scenes or the reasoning for certain decisions. This bloke isn't an amateur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: This is like blaming Monchi for Asensio going to PSG or for us not signing anyone yet. We don't know if Chris Heck " chose " anything or not. We have no idea what goes on or is happening behind the scenes or the reasoning for certain decisions. This bloke isn't an amateur. Agreed, I am optimistic for what he will deliver, particularly given what he did at the 76ers... but he definitely could have prevented our kit sponsor being announced the same day as the kit was... if he wanted to. I think that would have been one less brush to tar the launch with so vigorously. Obviously, it would still have been brought up. Maybe he was doing a rip the plaster off in one go and get all the shit done and out the way ASAP, so he can move on. I'm not sure, but it certainly gives the impression of amateur, although I am fairly sure he himself isn't. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted June 22, 2023 Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2023 12 minutes ago, MrBlack said: He must have known the sponsor was not well received (he should be instantly sacked if he did not), and the idea that releasing this on the morning you reveal the new kit was the right thing to do is laughable. This will most likely be a commercial issue triggered by the expiry of the Cazoo deal - they couldn't have launched the kit with BK8 on it without first confirming that partnership, it would have been odd, and they might not have been able to do that until today because Cazoo were still paying £22,000 a day to benefit from being our sponsor. It's also worth noting that Fanatics, who own Villa's kit, will have had a big say in when they wanted to put their product on sale - if they were pressing for an immediate release of kit and Cazoo were preventing an announcement of sponsor, there's very little the club could have done in terms of timing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 Just now, OutByEaster? said: This will most likely be a commercial issue triggered by the expiry of the Cazoo deal - they couldn't have launched the kit with BK8 on it without first confirming that partnership, it would have been odd, and they might not have been able to do that until today because Cazoo were still paying £22,000 a day to benefit from being our sponsor. Probably, and if he wanted the kit to be liked, he could have delayed kit launch a few days for the anger to blow over. It kind of already had from when it was first suggested under Purslow, it would have again quite quickly second time round. I think my last comment in my follow up post is the answer... he just wanted it all done and out in the open asap so he can get back to behind the scenes working to fix whatever the issues are that he sees with it all 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 3 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: This is like blaming Monchi for Asensio going to PSG or for us not signing anyone yet. We don't know if Chris Heck " chose " anything or not. We have no idea what goes on or is happening behind the scenes or the reasoning for certain decisions. This bloke isn't an amateur. Nothing like Asensio/Monchi. The timing of these announcements would’ve been signed off by Heck. It’s a major part of his remit, there is no way he wouldn’t be signing the timing off. Yes not his decisions on the sponsor etc but timing of announcements would’ve definitely under him especially as he’s been here since 17th May (his appointment) if not before. I’ve worked at enough companies that major announcements timing get signed off by directors and they are instrumental about it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allani Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, MrBlack said: Agreed, I am optimistic for what he will deliver, particularly given what he did at the 76ers... but he definitely could have prevented our kit sponsor being announced the same day as the kit was... if he wanted to. I think that would have been one less brush to tar the launch with so vigorously. Obviously, it would still have been brought up. Maybe he was doing a rip the plaster off in one go and get all the shit done and out the way ASAP, so he can move on. I'm not sure, but it certainly gives the impression of amateur, although I am fairly sure he himself isn't. Maybe he wanted the existing team to take the lead and complete the "project" that they started - so that he can see for himself what he needs to sort out? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 2 minutes ago, allani said: Maybe he wanted the existing team to take the lead and complete the "project" that they started - so that he can see for himself what he needs to sort out? Exactly, some of these things will have already been way too far along to make a U Turn. The current scenario is probably the compromise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 Anyway however it happened, it still happened. Heck has a lot on his plate now, I’m very hoping he does a great job so we don’t have these conversations again. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Made In Aston Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 I hope there is a legitimate business reason for wanting another rebrand, rather then just being because he doesn't like it and wasn't involved. Otherwise it really does get embarrassingly amateurish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted June 22, 2023 Moderator Share Posted June 22, 2023 There are threads for increasing commercial revenue and for the badge. Please use them for that purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted June 22, 2023 Share Posted June 22, 2023 30 minutes ago, Made In Aston said: I hope there is a legitimate business reason for wanting another rebrand, rather then just being because he doesn't like it and wasn't involved. Otherwise it really does get embarrassingly amateurish. I assume there is. He must see what works in the US but also in the UK, and feels this just won't. Whatever that looks like is for another thread, but he must have seen something major that needed to be overhauled, and it wasn't possible to accommodate with the kit already finished. Better to pause everything else (that he can control) and revise it all. He's got a record for smashing such a revamp in the US, let's hope its transferable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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