Straw Poll: Gerrard In or Out?

[nick76]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I think that is a bit disingenuous.....He knows SG for sure, and that helps, but SG's Character is universally known.

As a footballer.  A footballer and a manager is completely different.

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

We are very much a jekyll and Hyde team, who can be sublime one minute and ridiculous the next....what causes that, I am unsure, I have my suspicions, but thats all they are.

Problem is that we are far more often bad than good.  Just look at the whole of 2022 under him.

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

I still think certain players we have get bullied too easily, without much response and subsequently, there normal game is negated.

I don't think its all coaching, I think recruitment has been questionable in the recent past.

No it’s not all coaching but they don’t look like a coached team at all. As for recruitment to your point, Gerrard has brought a fair amount of players now, he could’ve addressed some of this but hasn’t.  He’s chosen a number of these players, he needs to get a tune out them, he’s just not and it’s not all about bullying, coaching is the main problem.

[nick76]

4 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think the margin would be greater, in the ground.

I’m not sure I’d agree in the Upper Holte where I am, there is a fair few grumblings about Gerrard and they are traditionally loyal over the years.  I’ve not seen this for a manager so early very often in my life time…only a couple of times.  I think his time is number if things don’t turn in the next month or so.  The crowd can turn quickly.

[IrishVilla10]

4 minutes ago, nick76 said:

 

Problem is that we are far more often bad than good.  Just look at the whole of 2022 under him.

This, a win against a Norwich, Burnley or this season Everton is the bare minimum we should be expecting. I don’t fancy us against any teams in the top half or go into games with confidence. It’s just going round in circles now I hope tomorrows the start of some consistent performances 

[Zatman]

6 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I’m not sure I’d agree in the Upper Holte where I am, there is a fair few grumblings about Gerrard and they are traditionally loyal over the years.  I’ve not seen this for a manager so early very often in my life time…only a couple of times.  I think his time is number if things don’t turn in the next month or so.  The crowd can turn quickly.

I think if Everton had equalised last week then it would have got nasty

[DCJonah]

39 minutes ago, TRO said:

and how do you think he got that relationship?

well the 3 are still to establish themselves with us, and pull up trees......I don't think DS would have got Kamara, or Carlos, but I could be wrong.....but the whole comparison is tedious.

SG is our manager, like it or lump it and The club was happy to get him......I suspect they have a rationale attached to that.

 

Haha, you know you could have said the same when the club sacked Bruce and had Smith for 3 years? Did that stop you?

You brought up the comparison with being able to attract players. Not me. 

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, nick76 said:

It was the same when they got rid of Smith, why the hell did they pick Gerrard? There is even less evidence than Poch that he could succeed but they pulled the plug on Smith anyway.  

Letting Smith go was the right thing if we brought in the next level manager but all we did is bring in somebody because of their playing name, not the coaching experience and it’s biting us in the bum now. On the pitch we are no different now than 12 months ago, in some ways we’ve regressed.  Gerrard is a popular figure in the media and some Villa fans are starstruck by him but so far, as a manager for us on the pitch, there is no substance.

Yes somebody like Poch is a risk but he has so much more evidence of the type of manager he is, and if not him there was others out there we could’ve hired but it still baffles me we went for a rookie manager because of a relationship? a playing name? Limited time at one of the big two in Scotland? Not seeing anything to show he’s the next level up from Smith who was sacked for literally the same level of performances and results Gerrard has been delivering for months and seems to be getting worse.

Nick, all that makes sense, I personally am not lost on what you say.....but the journey that Dean took us on, to the one now, requires a higher level of player, and without European football, that gets tricky...we are almost in catch 22

I think the hierarchy, were not convinced, that Dean could have succeeded in that territory, which is sad, but true....was the reason for their move.

So far, overall, I think we have better quality players, but not sure we have a better team.....The next 10-15 games will tell us more.

I have my reservations, about this team, which I accept, many would disagree with, but hey ho, thats the nature of the beast.

I would ask you to take a glance over at Man U and consider the amount of well respected Managers they have crashed and burned, and still success eludes theam, in fact they seem to be getting worse.....Maybe, Jose is the only one who came close, to mirroring SAF's discipline and they got at him eventually....That place is toxic.

I am not suggesting we have that same toxicity, by any stretch.... but I do think it is very strange that a driven manager like SG and we still have a team easy to play against.....I didn't expect that, I must be frank.

 

[VillaParkAvenue]

It will come down to results in relation to money spent.

Squad valuations are difficult, going by Transfermarkt Villa currently have the 8th most valuable squad but there’s a subjective element there.

Wage bills are more reliable. The correlation between wage bill and league position is usually strong, even though great managers like Potter or Frank sometimes achive more with less money.

Villa now appear to have the 7th or at least 8th highest wage bill in the league, so the team should be around that place in the long run.

This season just started, but if Villa find themselves in the bottom half later on the team is clearly underperforming.

[duke313]

4 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

It will come down to results in relation to money spent.

Squad valuations are difficult, going by Transfermarkt Villa currently have the 8th most valuable squad but there’s a subjective element there.

Wage bills are more reliable. The correlation between wage bill and league position is usually strong, even though great managers like Potter or Frank sometimes achive more with less money.

Villa now appear to have the 7th or at least 8th highest wage bill in the league, so the team should be around that place in the long run.

This season just started, but if Villa find themselves in the bottom half later on the team is clearly underperforming.

But wouldn't our wage bill be inflated slightly by having players surplus to requirements like Sanson, Guilbert, Traore, El Ghazi etc still on the books.  Those players are not going to feature, so will not contribute on the pitch, but our overall wage bill you highlighted makes it seem like they will.

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, nick76 said:

As a footballer.  A footballer and a manager is completely different.

Problem is that we are far more often bad than good.  Just look at the whole of 2022 under him.

No it’s not all coaching but they don’t look like a coached team at all. As for recruitment to your point, Gerrard has brought a fair amount of players now, he could’ve addressed some of this but hasn’t.  He’s chosen a number of these players, he needs to get a tune out them, he’s just not and it’s not all about bullying, coaching is the main problem.

A footballer and a Football manager maybe different in the job role and the skill set required to succeed.

but the man behind both roles has a make up, and that is defined by his character.....and attributes of both player and manager can be the same......i.e The chances are a driven player, will want his players to be driven.....some they can coach, some they can't its intrinsic.

On coaching.....We have lost games, by simply not defending in many cases the back post, simply not holding leads......simple headers lost on mismatches, that its arguable if coaching can fix that......the absence of postional awareness, is down to individual player intelligence, when they cross that white line, many things the coaches tell them are not being adhered to.

 

[VillaParkAvenue]

Just now, duke313 said:

But wouldn't our wage bill be inflated slightly by having players surplus to requirements like Sanson, Guilbert, Traore, El Ghazi etc still on the books.  Those players are not going to feature, so will not contribute on the pitch, but our overall wage bill you highlighted makes it seem like they will.

Absolutely, but most teams have similar issues with some players not actually playing. And trimming the wage bill is also part of the job of managing the club.

[TRO]

20 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I’m not sure I’d agree in the Upper Holte where I am, there is a fair few grumblings about Gerrard and they are traditionally loyal over the years.  I’ve not seen this for a manager so early very often in my life time…only a couple of times.  I think his time is number if things don’t turn in the next month or so.  The crowd can turn quickly.

If the results don't come Nick, we all know the consequences of that.

[nick76]

10 minutes ago, TRO said:

I would ask you to take a glance over at Man U and consider the amount of well respected Managers they have crashed and burned, and still success eludes theam, in fact they seem to be getting worse.....

You quote Man U as an example but I could same the other way like Conte at Spurs and Moyes at West Ham just name two that made a difference.  Man U’s problems aren’t just the manager…the owners, the infrastructure and the senior management is broken.  You only have to listen to people around the club to know that.  Their issues are more than just the manager position.  We have everything almost spot on in the club from owners to youth except the play on the first team pitch.  

When the club had the chance they picked a flashy name than a manager.  He may come good, I really hope he does for us but so far he’s just a flashy name based on his football career, the managerial substance on the pitch is not showing.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

33 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think the margin would be greater, in the ground.

Good to know.

In the ground is where it counts most!

[duke313]

Just now, nick76 said:

You quote Man U as an example but I could same the other way like Conte at Spurs and Moyes at West Ham just name two that made a difference.  Man U’s problems aren’t just the manager…the owners, the infrastructure and the senior management is broken.  You only have to listen to people around the club to know that.  Their issues are more than just the manager position.  We have everything almost spot on in the club from owners to youth except the play on the first team pitch.  

When the club had the chance they picked a flashy name than a manager.  He may come good, I really hope he does for us but so far he’s just a flashy name based on his football career, the managerial substance on the pitch is not showing.

United fans are also the most entitled fans in the world. 

Years of continuous success in the PL under Fergie has them spoilt, that finishing 6th is a catastrophe.

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Haha, you know you could have said the same when the club sacked Bruce and had Smith for 3 years? Did that stop you?

You brought up the comparison with being able to attract players. Not me. 

and I still standby, he can attract a better standard of player...but we all know there is more to being a football manager than that alone.

If you had the will or inclination, you could talk about all my other posts relating to managers.....but the old chesnut of Bruce, has to come up with you, doesn't it....despite me making many good claims about your man Dean Smith.

You are like a dog with a bone.....you are embarrasing yourself, and trashing good posts.

[nick76]

5 minutes ago, TRO said:

but the man behind both roles has a make up, and that is defined by his character.....and attributes of both player and manager can be the same......i.e The chances are a driven player, will want his players to be driven.....some they can coach, some they can't its intrinsic.

Keane, Gary Neville, Shearer, Ince to name just a few we’re great ex players, all very driven but all poor managers

8 minutes ago, TRO said:

On coaching.....We have lost games, by simply not defending in many cases the back post, simply not holding leads......simple headers lost on mismatches, that its arguable if coaching can fix that......the absence of postional awareness, is down to individual player intelligence, when they cross that white line, many things the coaches tell them are not being adhered to.

Again you are just blaming the players. I’ve acknowledged all that in the past but coaching isn’t there how to play together, we don’t have cohesion, we don’t have a way of playing, players don’t seem to be ready for plays.  If it was one or two players but it’s the whole team struggling with this.  

That’s coaching!  

Individual mistakes of course are happening but over the whole game you can see the coaching isn’t up to the level it should be.

[nick76]

6 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Good to know.

In the ground is where it counts most!

Yeah but I don’t think he’s right from my experience.  I think the atmosphere is further struggling because of it.

Edited August 19, 2022 by nick76

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, nick76 said:

You quote Man U as an example but I could same the other way like Conte at Spurs and Moyes at West Ham just name two that made a difference.  Man U’s problems aren’t just the manager…the owners, the infrastructure and the senior management is broken.  You only have to listen to people around the club to know that.  Their issues are more than just the manager position.  We have everything almost spot on in the club from owners to youth except the play on the first team pitch.  

When the club had the chance they picked a flashy name than a manager.  He may come good, I really hope he does for us but so far he’s just a flashy name based on his football career, the managerial substance on the pitch is not showing.

Sorry Nick, thats doesn't co-relate.

you say we have everything almost spot on...but these Owners who have most things right, don't get the manager right, is that what you are saying? you think a professional outfit like NSWE relied soley on a flashy name, come on Nick, you are better than that.

They will give him the time to prove, whether, he was the right choice or not.....and we jusy have to see.

[DCJonah]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

and I still standby, he can attract a better standard of player...but we all know there is more to being a football manager than that alone.

If you had the will or inclination, you could talk about all my other posts relating to managers.....but the old chesnut of Bruce, has to come up with you, doesn't it....despite me making many good claims about your man Dean Smith.

You are like a dog with a bone.....you are embarrasing yourself, and trashing good posts.

I'm just disagreeing with the hypocrisy you've shown over the last 12 months. 

The fact you've done a full 180 turn on certain things simply because Dean Smith is no longer manager is embarrassing. 

 

[danceoftheshamen]

9 hours ago, Keyblade said:

I really hope he ends up doing well enough to be considered for the Liverpool job. That would mean he's progressed us considerably. We should be able to take it from there you would hope.

This is the grey area for me. The better he does, the harder it would be if he "did one" to Plop and the more likely we would face some kind of period of transition. We all know how those go 

Seriously though it is a big point really. The bigger the success of a manager the harder it appears to be to get over their departure. I'm thinking Fergie at Man U (Still in a descending circle even now) Wenger at Arsenal & you could even factor Bob Paisley at Plop into that. Whenever an iconic manager leaves it is almost impossble to not go on a downward curve because they are so ingrained in the club. In fact it is usually the end of an era of dominance for that club. It may well happen to Man City too when Pep leaves. The only ones who seem to not suffer from it are actually Chelsea and this appears to be due to the very short lifespan of their managers even if they win the Title! Maybe there was method in the madness of Abramovich afterall!

Of course we are not talking about Fergie or Wenger levels here so hopefully we will move on a lot smoother if/when he does depart provided we then get a truly top notch manager in.