Wainy316 Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 23 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said: Also, I'm going to use this opportunity to bring back everyone's favorite Gerrard talking point from last season. The league table since gerrard took over. Still 9th place Can't say anyone would have complaints if he stretched that over a season and finished 9th. Does show how inconsistent most teams in the league are though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 Just now, lexicon said: This. I don't think it'd be too hard to upgrade on him. Or if I look backwards I don't see the upgrade on deano... We're no different, not better not worse, we're the same Aston Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 Just now, The Fun Factory said: What have we done in the last dozen years that suggest that the bar should be a lot higher? We are certainly more ambitious now but we have failed to reach a top half finish since 2009, and haven't been in Europe since 2008. If we come 13/14th again I don't think the board would be that happy but I think they would give him another season at least. Our last manager got sacked (rightly) for the same thing that you say Gerrard would likely be ok with and our last manager had credit in the bank at the time because of what he’d done for us, Gerrard hasn’t done anything for us. As for what have we done for the last dozen years comment? The difference are our owners now, our ambition and the finances that’s the difference from the last dozen years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted August 19, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted August 19, 2022 it's too early for the poll, of course but voted out as i just don't think i've seen enough to suggest he'll take us to the next level. i'll be surprised if he's our manager in a year from now. happy to get behind him and the team in the meantime and hope i'm proven wrong...and i hope that if/when it becomes clear that it's not working, that the board don't delay and just make the decision. i hate the idea of another wasted season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 12 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Completely agree But I dont see even baby steps of progression so far Personally, I don't think we've been gotten at as easily so far this season... with the exception of set pieces where we've been unbelievably poor (hopefully just down to Carlos coming in and not having built up an understanding yet?!). I'm guessing Kamara has helped in that regard. But otherwise, yeah, it's been much of the same. Hopefully Buendia starts to start games as he makes a massive difference in the final third. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 (edited) Yes but every other club finances have gone through the roof. We will give it a good go but it is not automatic that we will get a top half finish. Purslow clearly favours Gerrard and rightly or wrongly I think they will give him more time than Smith. Deano was the second choice when he got the job- they wanted Henry. They like star power. Edited August 19, 2022 by The Fun Factory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 i think this poll should have been introduced after 5-6 games, but for now I personally want to get behind the team and manager even if I am not a fan of Gerrard, I want him to succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted August 19, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted August 19, 2022 1 hour ago, nick76 said: Yeah the problem with polls is context. You are correct that two thirds of voters are ‘In’ but that leaves out how many then caveated that in the comment section with comments like things need to improve in the next few games otherwise they’ll switch. It’s not like the ‘Ins’ are saying definitely in, no issues, all is good, which is why as you are saying that 80% of this board have been commenting negatively. Just like me, I say ‘Out’ because I don’t see any improvement and I don’t see it getting better but I am open to improvement and changing my mind but he needs to do it quickly. A binary poll doesn’t cover that but it’s alarming that a third say ‘Out’ after two games of the season and after a win. I didn’t think the ‘Out’ would be so high as a percentage so that’s interesting. yeah exactly i voted out but that doesn't mean i'd sack him right now...just that i think he should go unless we see considerable improvement. if by the time the WC comes around we still see defensive frailties from set pieces, still not gotten the best out of coutinho yet starts every week over buendia, and still giving mcginn an automatic 90 mins every week despite poor performances then i'd say get rid and use the WC to find a replacement in time for the jan window 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 9 hours ago, Keyblade said: By this logic, Smith shouldn't have been sacked. The owners aren't infallible. neither are we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laughable Chimp Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 (edited) 43 minutes ago, nick76 said: I will add something that one of the posters on here (can’t remember who) produced that puts context to this Regressed as the season went on! I get what you're trying to say, but this graph isn't the way to say it. Aside from the fact that this does not include the first 2 games of this season, the fact that Gerrard had such a strong start means that this graph was always going to show a downward trend unless he somehow kept up that form forever. That is what the downward trend is actually showing, a regression to the mean. In fact, if I were to make such a graph for every team in the league, if we ranked our position at the end of the graph we would still be in 9th place compared to every other team. What you probably want is something like this rolling average graph that graphs the points per game over a short interval of time Edited August 19, 2022 by Laughable Chimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 9 minutes ago, tomav84 said: yeah exactly i voted out but that doesn't mean i'd sack him right now...just that i think he should go unless we see considerable improvement. if by the time the WC comes around we still see defensive frailties from set pieces, still not gotten the best out of coutinho yet starts every week over buendia, and still giving mcginn an automatic 90 mins every week despite poor performances then i'd say get rid and use the WC to find a replacement in time for the jan window I would be suspect, every fan agrees with that.....but change takes time. Finance has to be balanced The right players have to be sought Academy players have to be nurtured/matured, to create a pathway Coaching has to mature (New Coach) There is a whole host of criteria, that rely's on TIME. There is no debate to be had.....If he doesn't win enough matches, he won't survive.....but the owners will give him reasonable time to establish that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 51 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said: Also, I'm going to use this opportunity to bring back everyone's favorite Gerrard talking point from last season. The league table since gerrard took over. Still 9th place Good, if we can improve a little this season and be more consistent hopefully a much better season. Looking at the form of Leicester and Wet Spam surely top eight is up for grabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 1 minute ago, TRO said: I would be suspect, every fan agrees with that.....but change takes time. Finance has to be balanced The right players have to be sought Academy players have to be nurtured/matured, to create a pathway Coaching has to mature (New Coach) There is a whole host of criteria, that rely's on TIME. There is no debate to be had.....If he doesn't win enough matches, he won't survive.....but the owners will give him reasonable time to establish that. I agree, I was talking to a Rangers fan last night and he said much the same. Time, patience to implement the style also. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 It has to be in for now. We can't throw away what we had before for nothing so we need to give it the best possible chance to work. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Field Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 I agree with the sentiment that it is much to early to start a discussion like this. I personally, never wanted Gerrard in the first place, making my assessment of him biased. There are a bunch of things that worry me about Gerrard. - Our general playing style has seen very few improvements, it might even be worse than before tbh. - I personally believe that not one individual player has improved under Gerrard. (except for maybe Ramsey, who has seemingly regressed again, and maybe Cash? He seems to hit form at times). - I worry that he seemingly, already, has his favorite players, who play no matter what. He seems very stubborn in his team selections. - I worry about that he, seemingly, seems to have to buy older players to improve us, as he struggles to improve what was already here. This results in us destroying our wage structure. Although, we havent gone overboard with this yet, but players like Coutinho, Digne and Carlos will be on massive wages compared to the rest. I worry that even after signing these players, we don’t look any better, we maybe even look worse. He does have some qualities that I like and have been impressed by. He comes of as being very professional, having a high expectations and being very ambitious. He acts like a winner, I cannot remember us having another manager who had that aura around him. He also seems to be able to attract quality, that we probably shouldn’t be able to attract yet. Most players seem to rate him (altough the rest seem to despise him). It is much too early for a thread like this, we have literally only played two games this season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said: Good, if we can improve a little this season and be more consistent hopefully a much better season. Looking at the form of Leicester and Wet Spam surely top eight is up for grabs. As the team is....I think, we are not rounded enough for Europe. but SG will be given time, to establish, whether, he can or not deliver it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 9 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said: I get what you're trying to say, but this graph isn't the way to say it. Aside from the fact that this does not include the first 2 games of this season, the fact that Gerrard had such a strong start means that this graph was always going to show a downward trend unless he somehow kept up that form forever. That is what the downward trend is actually showing, a regression to the mean. In fact, if I were to make such a graph for every team in the league, if we ranked our position at the end of the graph we would still be in 9th place compared to every other team. What you probably want is something like this rolling average graph that graphs the points per game over a short interval of time The problem is that the first handful of games of a new tenure is traditionally known as a new manager bounce. Some people don’t believe that even though, as I’ve quoted before a couple of times, the PL have it documented with stats on their website. Then it’s easy to argue that Gerrard hadn’t got any of his ideas into the players in early games because even as he said he didn’t get many training seasons in the early weeks. Even to the point that he said that the first time he had serious time was in January in his ‘mini-preseason’ as he called it. Yet since then we have been very poor apart from those three games we won at the end of Feb from memory. The more time Gerrard has had the problems got worse, ending the season with 9 points in 11 games. The new season is to bring fresh hope but a defeat on the opening day and a win that we desperately held onto to against a very poor Everton team. The many on-the-pitch concerns remain. The upcoming games will provide a real test but things aren’t improving are they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 2 minutes ago, DCJonah said: It has to be in for now. We can't throw away what we had before for nothing so we need to give it the best possible chance to work. Hallelujah. rest assured, if we don't win sufficient games, and the trajectory is doubtful/questionable.....my stance may well change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexicon Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 40 minutes ago, villa4europe said: Or if I look backwards I don't see the upgrade on deano... We're no different, not better not worse, we're the same Aston Villa Quite, it felt like we sacked Deano because we didn't want to wait for him to learn the lessons he needed to - and then replaced him with someone in exactly the same predicament. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted August 19, 2022 Share Posted August 19, 2022 3 minutes ago, TRO said: As the team is....I think, we are not rounded enough for Europe. but SG will be given time, to establish, whether, he can or not deliver it. Yet you thought we were rounded enough 2 seasons ago to get Europe with Nakamba, Barkley and Trez playing that still got 55 points. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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