Summer Transfer Window 2022

[VillaParkAvenue]

2 minutes ago, Xela said:

Suarez is a gateway. He's good pals with Messi. As is Emi. With both of them here, then Messi joining is inevitable. 

A front three of Messi - Suarez - Coutinho

Campeones!

 

Messi in a celebrity front three has been an awful idea at PSG. Combine him with Suarez, who has stopped running (and scoring) almost completely this season and things could get laughably bad. Don’t put Coutinho through that.

[Xela]

58 minutes ago, Talldarkandransome said:

Suarez is a weird one for me, yes he's an excellent striker that scores for fun but what does it say to the black players at the club. 

I wouldnt really want that in the dressing room

This is Suarez's view on it

Quote

What some people will never want to accept is that the argument took place in Spanish. I did not use the word “negro” the way it can be used in English.

As I am now fully aware (and I did not even know this at the time), in English there is a word that is spelled the same way but is pronounced differently and it is highly offensive: negro, pronounced nee-gro. Negro (pronounced neh-gro) in Spanish means “black”, nothing more. It is not in itself an insult. Now, people will say: “Okay, but you said ‘black’ – you shouldn’t have.” But Evra had started the argument in Spanish and the Spanish language is full of these ways of addressing someone: “Guapo” (handsome), “Gordo” (fatty), “Flaco” (skinny), “Rubio” (blond), and so on. Just names based on physical characteristics, nothing more. Negro can refer to anyone with dark hair as well as dark skin and I’ve been used to the word being used in Spanish in this way all my life. My wife sometimes calls me “Negro” or (the diminutive version) “Negrito”. My grandmother used to call my grandfather “Negrito” and she would occasionally call me that too. I’m not trying to pretend it was meant in a friendly way to Evra because clearly we were arguing. But nor was it ever meant as a racist slur.

Whether you believe him, it's down to you. 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/26/luis-suarez-am-i-a-racist-no-absolutely-not-i-was-horrified

[Xela]

Just now, VillaParkAvenue said:

Messi in a celebrity front three has been an awful idea at PSG. Combine him with Suarez, who has stopped running (and scoring) almost completely this season and things could get laughably bad. Don’t put Coutinho through that.

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure that won't be our line up next year!  

 

[KentVillan]

2 minutes ago, Xela said:

This is Suarez's view on it

Whether you believe him, it's down to you. 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/26/luis-suarez-am-i-a-racist-no-absolutely-not-i-was-horrified

What he's definitely right about is that whereas "negro" in English is *only* a racist slur, in Spanish it is just their everyday word for "black" in any context (e.g. "café negro" = black coffee).

However, constantly referring to someone by their skin colour in an argument is... not very defensible. It's exactly what JT was accused of.

If someone said "shut up white boy", "shut up you white word removed" I imagine most of us wouldn't exactly take it as harmless banter, and it's even more loaded for anyone who's been a victim of racism all their lives.

Suarez is an idiot and a clearing in the woods from what I've ever seen of him, but is (or at least was) an amazing footballer. Love watching him play. Would prefer he didn't join Villa, but am sure he'd do a good job on the pitch.

[KangarooVillan]

On 14/03/2022 at 21:12, nick76 said:

Makes much more sense to sell Ollie.  

Given there isn’t much between them quality wise, selling Ollie would get much much more money to spend either on another striker or elsewhere in the team.  

Danny’s value because of his age won’t compensate against the quality he brings us.  

Keep Danny, sell Ollie and bring in better quality always knowing Danny is there if we need.  

Selling Ollie now at his highest premium makes much more sense because we are seeing he’s not likely to be the top notch striker consistently that we need, which include trying to get close to a ~20 goals a season target. Just getting into double figures isn’t enough.

Almost no one scores 20/season without pens…

Do you believe the problem is personnel based then?

Why don’t you think if we bring in someone new that we won’t have exactly the same problem?

Issues at the moment don’t have anything to do with the quality of Ollie or Ings and if we keep bringing in expensive new players that’s what will keep us forever mid-table a la Everton.

If you look at West Ham who finished 19/20 in 16th after bringing in Haller, Soucek, Fornals and Bowen. The following year they on brought in Benrahma and Coufal and finished 6th.

[VillaChris]

2 hours ago, Talldarkandransome said:

Suarez is a weird one for me, yes he's an excellent striker that scores for fun but what does it say to the black players at the club. 

I wouldnt really want that in the dressing room

Atletico Madrid have a few.

I can see logic in signing Suarez from playing POV if he's just a sub/plan b option as he is at Atletico these days.

If we're just going to start him every week then I think it will work similar to Ronaldo at Man. United, he'll score at an decent rate but we won't move significantly up the table.

[nick76]

24 minutes ago, KangarooVillan said:

Almost no one scores 20/season without pens…

I said get close to 20 goals, we have to at least try.  Our strikers aren’t even in the top 25 goal scorers of the season.  I agree 20 goals even with pens is unlikely these days but our top scorer is 7 goals…it’s not good enough.

24 minutes ago, KangarooVillan said:

Do you believe the problem is personnel based then?

Don’t know, I honest don’t! The Ollie of last season I thought was great, not the final product but wow, great first season with potential.  This season he’s looked a shadow of himself and I don’t believe that’s totally down to service and Ings coming in, it’s part of the issue but something more.  Our service needs to improve no doubt.  I also don’t think Ollie fits Gerrard’s system long term, he’s not the right style to play the No.9 in Gerrard’s system imo.  It’s not just goals though with Ollie this season he’s generally be poor in his other parts of his game.

24 minutes ago, KangarooVillan said:

Why don’t you think if we bring in someone new that we won’t have exactly the same problem?

We might, it’s always a risk but we should get a premium fee for Ollie which we can reinvest, which is part of the clubs model.  Do we invest in a more expensive striker or an up and coming striker while investing the rest elsewhere.  The difference maybe Gerrard can buy a striker that fits his system rather than having somebody that might not quite fit in Ollie.

24 minutes ago, KangarooVillan said:

Issues at the moment don’t have anything to do with the quality of Ollie or Ings and if we keep bringing in expensive new players that’s what will keep us forever mid-table a la Everton.

I never said either Ings or Ollie are not quality, in fact I say the opposite.  I have also never said we should bring in expensive signings.  I’m a big believer of bringing in the right player for the right system.

24 minutes ago, KangarooVillan said:

If you look at West Ham who finished 19/20 in 16th after bringing in Haller, Soucek, Fornals and Bowen. The following year they on brought in Benrahma and Coufal and finished 6th.

I’m not sure what you are trying to tell me here, that some players worked, some didn’t. Then added more that worked and it improved things.  Isn’t that what I’m trying to say.  You also prove my point that not all quality signings are expensive with Soucek at £19m and Coufal at £5.4m.

Edited March 15, 2022 by nick76

[VillaParkAvenue]

1 hour ago, nick76 said:

I said get close to 20 goals, we have to at least try.  Our strikers aren’t even in the top 25 goal scorers of the season.  I agree 20 goals even with pens is unlikely these days but our top scorer is 7 goals…it’s not good enough.

Don’t know, I honest don’t! The Ollie of last season I thought was great, not the final product but wow, great first season with potential.  This season he’s looked a shadow of himself and I don’t believe that’s totally down to service and Ings coming in, it’s part of the issue but something more.  Our service needs to improve no doubt.  I also don’t think Ollie fits Gerrard’s system long term, he’s not the right style to play the No.9 in Gerrard’s system imo.  It’s not just goals though with Ollie this season he’s generally be poor in his other parts of his game.

We might, it’s always a risk but we should get a premium fee for Ollie which we can reinvest, which is part of the clubs model.  Do we invest in a more expensive striker or an up and coming striker while investing the rest elsewhere.  The difference maybe Gerrard can buy a striker that fits his system rather than having somebody that might not quite fit in Ollie.

I never said either Ings or Ollie are not quality, in fact I say the opposite.  I have also never said we should bring in expensive signings.  I’m a big believer of bringing in the right player for the right system.

I’m not sure what you are trying to tell me here, that some players worked, some didn’t. Then added more that worked and it improved things.  Isn’t that what I’m trying to say.  You also prove my point that not all quality signings are expensive with Soucek at £19m and Coufal at £5.4m.

I agree 7 goals is too low, but it’s a fact that strikers have become less important overall and goalscoring more spread out on more players. Very few, if any, strikers/nr 9 have had a good season in the Prem.

[nick76]

16 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

I agree 7 goals is too low, but it’s a fact that strikers have become less important overall and goalscoring more spread out on more players. Very few, if any, strikers/nr 9 have had a good season in the Prem.

Ok but that’s falling into whataboutism.  It’s a good point but do we just walk away and say it is what it is? Of course not.  A lot of teams aren’t playing with a No.9 striker these days as well, focusing on dropping deep or using wide forwards.  The point though is Ollie isn’t scoring enough and his general play hasn’t been up to his levels most of the season.

This sent aimed at you but Ollie gets defended on here by some as if none of it’s his fault.  Loads of reasons totted out from, it’s since Ings was brought in, we haven’t created enough for him, he’s had a baby, he’s played out wide for art of the season, he doesn’t have Jack creativity, other No.9 also haven’t been scoring….the list goes on and I’m sure some of that has to do with it but the second you put focus on Ollie himself about not working as hard as last season, not looking as happy, not passing or being stupidly selfish, his positioning looking poorer or his shots look poorer, it seems the defenders of him go into overdrive.

Hes never going  to be a high scorer because he’s not a clinical finisher and that’s fine if the rest of his game is rocking but when that isn’t like most of this season he becomes a problem to the team being effective.  I also don’t think he fits Gerrard system well so that maybe part of it but he looked so good for two games but 2 games (maybe a few more) isn’t enough.  We need at a minimum the Ollie from last season back or we may as well cash in on him because we can get a premium for him now.

[Zatman]

4 hours ago, Xela said:

Suarez is a gateway. He's good pals with Messi. As is Emi. With both of them here, then Messi joining is inevitable. 

A front three of Messi - Suarez - Coutinho

Campeones!

 

Its pretty much the failed frontline of Barcelona from 2018-2020

[TRO]

4 hours ago, nick76 said:

I said get close to 20 goals, we have to at least try.  Our strikers aren’t even in the top 25 goal scorers of the season.  I agree 20 goals even with pens is unlikely these days but our top scorer is 7 goals…it’s not good enough.

Don’t know, I honest don’t! The Ollie of last season I thought was great, not the final product but wow, great first season with potential.  This season he’s looked a shadow of himself and I don’t believe that’s totally down to service and Ings coming in, it’s part of the issue but something more.  Our service needs to improve no doubt.  I also don’t think Ollie fits Gerrard’s system long term, he’s not the right style to play the No.9 in Gerrard’s system imo.  It’s not just goals though with Ollie this season he’s generally be poor in his other parts of his game.

We might, it’s always a risk but we should get a premium fee for Ollie which we can reinvest, which is part of the clubs model.  Do we invest in a more expensive striker or an up and coming striker while investing the rest elsewhere.  The difference maybe Gerrard can buy a striker that fits his system rather than having somebody that might not quite fit in Ollie.

I never said either Ings or Ollie are not quality, in fact I say the opposite.  I have also never said we should bring in expensive signings.  I’m a big believer of bringing in the right player for the right system.

I’m not sure what you are trying to tell me here, that some players worked, some didn’t. Then added more that worked and it improved things.  Isn’t that what I’m trying to say.  You also prove my point that not all quality signings are expensive with Soucek at £19m and Coufal at £5.4m.

spot on.

[OutByEaster?]

We'll be bringing in a fair bit of money this summer I think for fringe players.

Gilbert has been brilliant in France, he'll fetch a price, Trez is scoring in Turkey and brings a big profile with the Egyptian fans, Davis is flying in the Championship, Targett is doing well at Newcastle, El Ghazi will still fetch a fee - those five alone are likely to bring us something like £45-50m and knock £80-100k a week off the wage bill - those five could go a long way toward paying for Coutinho and for the most part they haven't featured at all for Gerrard.

Throw in wages for Hourihane and possibly Wesley and there will be enough there to cover it I think.

That's without touching whatever the owners want to add and the potential for other sales - the likes of Traore and Bailey - that could raise significant funds.

 

[CVByrne]

53 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said:

We'll be bringing in a fair bit of money this summer I think for fringe players.

Gilbert has been brilliant in France, he'll fetch a price, Trez is scoring in Turkey and brings a big profile with the Egyptian fans, Davis is flying in the Championship, Targett is doing well at Newcastle, El Ghazi will still fetch a fee - those five alone are likely to bring us something like £45-50m and knock £80-100k a week off the wage bill - those five could go a long way toward paying for Coutinho and for the most part they haven't featured at all for Gerrard.

Throw in wages for Hourihane and possibly Wesley and there will be enough there to cover it I think.

That's without touching whatever the owners want to add and the potential for other sales - the likes of Traore and Bailey - that could raise significant funds.

 

The question then is what do we spend it on? I think the 4 3 2 1 will come back and the positional rotation to move to a 4 3 1 2. I just don't know about our CF department is it good enough to go with next season or should we add a 3rd striker (Archer needs another Loan I'd say). 

[El Segundo]

I find it strange people think we we will / should sell players like Traore and Bailey because they are not first choices.  It's a squad game and to move into that elite level we are going to need minimum 15-20  players who can perform at that high level.  What happens when, inevitably, we get some injuries or suspensions?  What happens if we qualify for Europe and go further in the domestic cups and have a lot more games to play? The trick is to keep all those players happy when they are not automatic first choices.  I think Gerrard should rotate a little and give the likes of Sanson, Bailey and Traore a start, and now the season has fizzled out  a little maybe Chuk and Iroegbunam as well.     

Links to Suarez concern me because, together with Coutinho,  I do wonder if it hints at a "galactico" type thinking with everything centred around a few big stars rather than on a team system that players can become interchangeable in.  There are already signs that we are becoming very reliant on Coutinho for creativity, much as we were with Grealish.  Sure it raises our profile, but is that at the cost of a long term team plan and system?  It's a dilemma that seems to be affecting Man Yoo since re-signing Ronaldo.          

[TRO]

5 hours ago, CVByrne said:

The question then is what do we spend it on? I think the 4 3 2 1 will come back and the positional rotation to move to a 4 3 1 2. I just don't know about our CF department is it good enough to go with next season or should we add a 3rd striker (Archer needs another Loan I'd say). 

No6.....all day long.

The transition from a Dean Smith format to a Steven Gerrard format, needs the personnel to do it properly....I am hoping in the Summer, we fix that position, once and for all.

We have had too many wingers in the ranks,in the past, who offer very little, that asset value needs to be shifted to players who can effect a game, more efficiently.

I am not against wingers, as long as they do what it says on the tin and not become passengers.....The intensity of this modern game, does not cater for passengers.

We are not prolific scorers, but we do score in most games......We need players to help us keep the ball out of our net......by that, I mean we need to protect the back 2 better, with full backs doubling up as wingers, its more important than ever.

Edited March 16, 2022 by TRO

[maqroll]

18 hours ago, Xela said:

This is Suarez's view on it

Whether you believe him, it's down to you. 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/oct/26/luis-suarez-am-i-a-racist-no-absolutely-not-i-was-horrified

That nuance exists, so IMO it takes some of the sting out of it. But he still shouldn't have said it because he doesn't play for Penarol or whoever anymore. Racial sensitivity is a different beast in Europe. 

[maqroll]

I think signing Suarez would be regressive and costly. It would run counter to stated intent. We need younger players with sell on value.

The only way I'd be on board with Suarez is if it's a one year deal on modest wages in an attempt to crash Europe in 2023.

[Zatman]

29 minutes ago, maqroll said:

I think signing Suarez would be regressive and costly. It would run counter to stated intent. We need younger players with sell on value.

The only way I'd be on board with Suarez is if it's a one year deal on modest wages in an attempt to crash Europe in 2023.

2 league goals since November in a better team playing in an allegedly shitter league

[TRO]

20 hours ago, KentVillan said:

What he's definitely right about is that whereas "negro" in English is *only* a racist slur, in Spanish it is just their everyday word for "black" in any context (e.g. "café negro" = black coffee).

However, constantly referring to someone by their skin colour in an argument is... not very defensible. It's exactly what JT was accused of.

If someone said "shut up white boy", "shut up you white word removed" I imagine most of us wouldn't exactly take it as harmless banter, and it's even more loaded for anyone who's been a victim of racism all their lives.

Suarez is an idiot and a clearing in the woods from what I've ever seen of him, but is (or at least was) an amazing footballer. Love watching him play. Would prefer he didn't join Villa, but am sure he'd do a good job on the pitch.

The word negro was never meant to be offensive, it was originally meant as a descriptive, by the portuguese in South America, to distinguish themselves from the Bantu tribe....how times change.

The word has developed in England over the recent centuries to be a derogatory term....and with the advent of black people integrating successfully in to English society.....it has out grown its intended usefulness,( as seen by the portuguese) so is effectively, a defunct word.

Its a word I would avoid in both cases....as it's inappropriate.

sorry for going off topic.

 

Edited March 16, 2022 by TRO

[maqroll]

Negro was still used in the USA as recently as the 1970s. It's still used in Latin America as a "familiar" term. 

But in contemporary times, outside Latin America, it's akin to "colored", so pretty offensive.