CVByrne Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 13 hours ago, YouUnastanFren said: I think I can see the problem, you've only watched 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2019. If you'd seen any other seasons you'd have seen his main rivals be in red cars as well as his debut season where he beat his reigning two time world champion teammate. I don't really ever root for Hamilton since he left McLaren but the attempt at belittling his career is bordering on parody. Without the first and third paragraphs I'd think your post was satire. Kimi won the world championship in Hamiltons first season. In only two seasons of his last 8 had he have a battle with Vettel and Ferrari which he won. He then had a battle last season which he lost. What shows Hamilton success is primarily the car is how often he is beaten by his teammates. Even losing the world championship in 2016. He's a good for the statistics driver in the most dominant team in history of the sport in the era where the car is 99% of the total performance. Drivers like Senna and Schumacher are unquestionably better than Hamilton. While a lot of people put Alonso as the most talented of the last 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 12 hours ago, Tayls said: Why do you feel that way? Because he has statistics in the sport because of the scale of dominance of his car. His talent levels in the history of the sport wouldn't have him in the top 5 drivers. If you had a top 3 talent in the Mercedes beside him for the last 8 years he wouldn't have won half what he has. That's what is the most frustrating about the last decade. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichfield Dean Posted March 21, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, CVByrne said: Kimi won the world championship in Hamiltons first season. In only two seasons of his last 8 had he have a battle with Vettel and Ferrari which he won. He then had a battle last season which he lost. What shows Hamilton success is primarily the car is how often he is beaten by his teammates. Even losing the world championship in 2016. He's a good for the statistics driver in the most dominant team in history of the sport in the era where the car is 99% of the total performance. Drivers like Senna and Schumacher are unquestionably better than Hamilton. While a lot of people put Alonso as the most talented of the last 15 years. Nobody knows if Senna or Schumacher are better than Hamilton. Nobody can ever know that either. It's purely a matter of conjecture. FWIW I genuinely don't think Lewis would be the top driver in the top team if he wasn't the best in the field. Maybe one or two could perhaps match him, Alonso maybe as you say, but even then... We don't actually know that for definite. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 21, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2022 11 hours ago, mykeyb said: One race ain't karma. I think Red Bull look better equipped for a championship shot than the Mercs do at the moment but will take Ferrari one twos all season long. Yeah Red Bulls look miles ahead of Merc. But Merc have form for starting slowly under new changes. I'd expect them to come on leaps and bounds as the season progresses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 16 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Yeah Red Bulls look miles ahead of Merc. But Merc have form for starting slowly under new changes. I'd expect them to come on leaps and bounds as the season progresses Of course it remains to be seen, but Toto was fairly positive in the interview I saw. Knew what the issue was and plenty new level parts in process of coming through. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted March 21, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 21, 2022 In a way it's a perfect start to the season in terms of the championship. The Red Bulls are competitive and will win some races and Ferrari look good - how long Ferrari can hold onto their advantage will be interesting - and the head start they've now got makes it more so - if they remain competitive for the first half of the season, then they'll be a real obstacle to the caffeine Contras. If Mercedes then improve as the season develops, we might find the three teams mixed in for the podium spots which will make for some really good racing and will also spread the points around, giving Leclerc a chance to stay in the title race for longer and increasing the chances for Ferrari. It's set us up nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted March 21, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted March 21, 2022 50 minutes ago, Genie said: Of course it remains to be seen, but Toto was fairly positive in the interview I saw. Knew what the issue was and plenty new level parts in process of coming through. Yeah exactly. I'd expect them to be far more competitive as the season goes on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post YouUnastanFren Posted March 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted March 21, 2022 2 hours ago, CVByrne said: Kimi won the world championship in Hamiltons first season. In only two seasons of his last 8 had he have a battle with Vettel and Ferrari which he won. He then had a battle last season which he lost. What shows Hamilton success is primarily the car is how often he is beaten by his teammates. Even losing the world championship in 2016. He's a good for the statistics driver in the most dominant team in history of the sport in the era where the car is 99% of the total performance. Drivers like Senna and Schumacher are unquestionably better than Hamilton. While a lot of people put Alonso as the most talented of the last 15 years. Sorry this is just an awful take. 2007 Kimi won the championship and arguably the most talented driver on the grid (your words) Alonso got beaten by his rookie teammate Hamilton. Everyone loses to their teammates sometimes, Alonso lost to Hamilton, Schumacher lost to Piquet as a newbie and Rosberg as a vet, Senna lost to Prost (would've been repeatedly using every result in the season). Hamilton lost 2016 because he had more DNFs than Rosberg, who himself is a great underrated driver who hammered Schumacher at 40 (which Alonso has proved is not too old). Without the engine failure from the lead in Malaysia he'd have won that season by miles. Really seems like you're letting your emotions about him as a person hinder your ability to see that he's one of the all time great drivers. The unquestionable bit especially seems like just emotional hatred. Fwiw a lot of the drivers seem to think Jim Clarke is GOAT but it's honestly possible to make a case for about 10 people. Definitely not unquestionable either way. PS - The 99% the car is also rubbish. If that was the case no two teammates would ever be more than 1% apart even if they were the best driver ever and my nan. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Red Bull were top car Vettel wins 4 titles. Then Mercedes is top car and Hamilton wins 6 of 7 titles. The lack of real competition from rivals teams is what that period is remembered for. Not Vettel or Hamilton being drivers clearly a cut above everyone else we have seen in an era ala Senna/Schumi. Let's just hope Mercedes don't solve their issues and Hamilton has an uncompetitive car for the season. Ferrari v Red Bull. Max vs Charles that's what we need for the forseable future I hope 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouUnastanFren Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 24 minutes ago, CVByrne said: Red Bull were top car Vettel wins 4 titles. Then Mercedes is top car and Hamilton wins 6 of 7 titles. The lack of real competition from rivals teams is what that period is remembered for. Not Vettel or Hamilton being drivers clearly a cut above everyone else we have seen in an era ala Senna/Schumi. Lol are you pretending that Schumacher didn't have the a similarly good car for his 5 titles in a row? The F2004 was one of the most dominant cars of all time and that was with Barichello not Rosberg in the other car. Senna got less points than Prost in both seasons they had as teammates, not sure why you want to pretend otherwise. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 3 hours ago, YouUnastanFren said: Lol are you pretending that Schumacher didn't have the a similarly good car for his 5 titles in a row? The F2004 was one of the most dominant cars of all time and that was with Barichello not Rosberg in the other car. Senna got less points than Prost in both seasons they had as teammates, not sure why you want to pretend otherwise. From what I remember Barichello wasn't even allowed to race Schumacher, he would have to give up his place and let Schumacher through if he happened to be ahead on team orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 5 hours ago, CVByrne said: Red Bull were top car Vettel wins 4 titles. Then Mercedes is top car and Hamilton wins 6 of 7 titles. The lack of real competition from rivals teams is what that period is remembered for. Not Vettel or Hamilton being drivers clearly a cut above everyone else we have seen in an era ala Senna/Schumi. Let's just hope Mercedes don't solve their issues and Hamilton has an uncompetitive car for the season. Ferrari v Red Bull. Max vs Charles that's what we need for the forseable future I hope Last season Hamilton 8 wins Bottas 1, 2020 Hamilton 11 Bottas 2 2019 Hamilton 11 Bottas 4 All the same car, say no more 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 21, 2022 Author Moderator Share Posted March 21, 2022 6 hours ago, CVByrne said: Let's just hope Mercedes don't solve their issues and Hamilton has an uncompetitive car for the season. Ferrari v Red Bull. Max vs Charles that's what we need for the forseable future I hope IMO no chance Merc don't get their car sorted. It's when, not if. And knowing them it'll be pretty quick. So they've got a big headstart on Red Bull while Merc's car is at its weakest. The one thing Hamilton is probably best at is never giving you anything for free. He'll take every point available to him basically every single time. Merc's problem is Ferrari. Hopefully they all get sorted and we have a proper 6 car battle every week. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouUnastanFren Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 30 minutes ago, BOF said: IMO no chance Merc don't get their car sorted. It's when, not if. And knowing them it'll be pretty quick. So they've got a big headstart on Red Bull while Merc's car is at its weakest. The one thing Hamilton is probably best at is never giving you anything for free. He'll take every point available to him basically every single time. Merc's problem is Ferrari. Hopefully they all get sorted and we have a proper 6 car battle every week. 6 car battle at the front and then an 8 car battle for the formula 1.5 title. The only casualties so far seem to be the Merc customer teams. The McLarens were painful to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 21, 2022 Author Moderator Share Posted March 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, YouUnastanFren said: 6 car battle at the front and then an 8 car battle for the formula 1.5 title. The only casualties so far seem to be the Merc customer teams. The McLarens were painful to watch. I can see some flat out ditching whichever of their experimental designs that simply aren't working. McLaren are also well able at a quick turnaround. Fingers crossed for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 10 hours ago, CVByrne said: Because he has statistics in the sport because of the scale of dominance of his car. His talent levels in the history of the sport wouldn't have him in the top 5 drivers. If you had a top 3 talent in the Mercedes beside him for the last 8 years he wouldn't have won half what he has. That's what is the most frustrating about the last decade. I don't like Lewis but I cannot agree with you. He had the beating of Nico and Bottas while at Mercedes losing the championship only once to his teammate. Yes his car as been the one to beat but he has only lost the championship twice in that time. Say what you like about him but he is one of the best drivers of the last 20 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 16 minutes ago, BOF said: I can see some flat out ditching whichever of their experimental designs that simply aren't working. McLaren are also well able at a quick turnaround. Fingers crossed for them. I hope you right BOF because they were miles off. I did hope them and Aloha Tauri would be up there challenging as well so there would be 9 to 10 cars in the battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 21, 2022 Moderator Share Posted March 21, 2022 18 minutes ago, mykeyb said: I did hope them and Aloha Tauri would be up there challenging Are they Hawaiian now? 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 21, 2022 Author Moderator Share Posted March 21, 2022 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouUnastanFren Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 25 minutes ago, BOF said: Well they've completely **** up the on screen graphics so far this season but helmet cam is **** brilliant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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