Steven Gerrard

[nick76]

33 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I don’t think it was a bounce. He just set us up not to lose and we managed to nick points in the process.  Then he went a bit more expansive and we looked shit. I think if we were in trouble he’d return to his first set up. I think he may have already done it.

Fair enough! I disagree with your summary but each to their own.

[TRO]

9 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

I think it was a more a case that after a few games other teams analysed the way we were set up and quickly discovered the massive flaw in the wing backs bombing forward and central midfielders covering tactics.  This is the Premier League, full of good tacticians and analysts that just make mincemeat of our set up and at virtually no stage has Gerrard tried to alter the main tactic at all.  Yes the front 3 have changed here and there but it's irrelevant when he makes such a clusterfudge of setting up the 7 behind them, it's embarrassingly bad management.  It's not as if he seems to be able to motivate players either, in fact quite the opposite.

I think the correlation between, player capabilty and set up, is paramount......We are trying to do things, we can't do.

Understanding what players can and can't do, might be his flaw.......I hope he is learning, because, unless he gets this right, frustration will breed.

What works at Liverpool (Most of the time) does not necessarily work with us, due to the disparity, in player quality and player attributes.

We are not good enough to bomb on, or take teams apart offensively....we need to be more stealth like and measured in our transitions....We need to be more savvy, in acquiring points....and that means managing games better.

That might disappoint some who want to see swashbuckling football....but I say, we are not ready for that, mentally, physically or technically.....We all want to see that, but so do other teams fans......Prudency, must be adopted, and expectation during a game, rained in.

Steven Gerrad, still has a lot to learn, in management......I hope he is given to time to iron out his mistakes.

 

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

It's almost impossible for a player to provide all the attacking width and do their job in a back 4 at this level.  Sending them out like this all the time is incompetence.

I agree.

but some would say in the case of a Rookie Manager, naivety, as much as incompetence.

I hope he learns quick, because it could cost him dearly.

Edited September 13, 2022 by TRO

[TRO]

49 minutes ago, nick76 said:

The concern I have is that (last season) included a new manager bounce. Some people don’t agree with that term but when he Gerrard took over that bounce got us 12 points in the first 6 games, which was a massive contributor to why we weren’t fighting relegation but was over a quarter of our final points.  Without that bounce I can’t see where Gerrard gets that kind of run from this season, hence my concern. If he continues as run rate, I think you’ll have to change that stance.

I am not convinced by the Manager bounce theory, more convinced by the tightening up theory, and being harder to play against theory.

Most new managers, get the job, because the last guy was failing, and usually, its because teams are conceding too easily and readily.....like us.......The first move is fairly consistent, but the move back to a more offensive style, can be too quick, and in our case, I think it was.

Steven Gerrard, tightened us up, initially and then fell over his bootlaces to go to an attacking threat too quickly, imv, before consolidating and securing, player confidence....by signing Digne and Coutinho, not blaming them individually, but taking us back a step, to being too easy to play through.....They are very good players, with the right ones around them, I am not sure, we was right for them, at that point.

I have no doubt Nick, If he continues, to have us easy to play against, your view, will be proved right.....He will sink.

He has to change us back to what he had, when he first took over, and build the confidence back, get the belief, back in to the team and build from there......We can wait a while before we beat teams 4-0.......a scruffy 1-0 with 3 points will do for me for a while.

some will say, we don't have to take that that compromise, we are better than that.....but right now, we are not, The league table is a truism, those at the top love it, those at the bottom don't, we are there for a reason......who is responsible is the debate and that could well be a collective, one....albeit SG will take the brunt of it, naturally.

We have differing opinions on how that responsibilty manifests itself......but I believe, he has to change us, to save his job and restore confidence, in us all......The new coach has to help with that.

I know, Unlike me, you don't believe, he can do it......I believe he can and will.......but I do see the mistakes he has made as clear as a bell.

UTV

 

[DaveAV1]

From what he said after the Man City game, I think he intends to batton down the hatches against the big teams and Nick the odd point. Then against the other teams play a more open style. The trouble is there aren’t really any poor teams, or at least not many in the PL who you can play like that against and win. You always have to earn the right to play in this league. I think he probably knows this but his approach is too simplistic. 

[sharkyvilla]

23 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think the correlation between, player capabilty and set up, is paramount......We are trying to do things, we can't do.

Understanding what players can and can't do, might be his flaw.......I hope he is learning, because, unless he gets this right, frustration will breed.

What works at Liverpool (Most of the time) does not necessarily work with us, due to the disparity, in player quality and player attributes.

We are not good enough to bomb on, or take teams apart offensively....we need to be more stealth like and measured in our transitions....We need to be more savvy, in acquiring points....and that means managing games better.

That might disappoint some who want to see swashbuckling football....but I say, we are not ready for that, mentally, physically or technically.....We all want to see that, but so do other teams fans......Prudency, must be adopted, and expectation during a game, rained in.

Steven Gerrad, still has a lot to learn, in management......I hope he is given to time to iron out his mistakes.

 

I'm not sure about the comparison with Liverpool's tactics, don't Salah and whoever starts left occupy their full backs and then move in between the lines, allowing overlaps from Robertson and Trent.  Also they have two players deep in midfield rather than the one left on his own.  I try not to watch Liverpool if I can but that's what I've noticed and other lesser teams have been built similarly.  We are basically asking Gerrard to go and do what Dean did after the lockdown to keep us up, keep us solid and knick wins but we are two more seasons down the line, paying him triple what Dean was on and added a shitload to the wage bill for players who bar Kamara will have no value in a couple of seasons.  Also we have no players left to change the system anyway ffs.

[nick76]

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

I am not convinced by the Manager bounce theory, more convinced by the tightening up theory, and being harder to play against theory.

 

Gerrard didn’t tighten up at all in those games.  I don’t think we were tight at all those games, we just had everybody giving everything, it was raw energy and mentality hence why I thought my pre appointment worries may have been wrong.  The team were like Gerrard the player so I got excited.  The team weren’t tighter then than they are now, it was just players playing full pelt which was awesome.  After that sixth game we haven’t seen any of that since, hence for me it was a new manager bounce, players wanting to prove to the new manager.  I never thought we were tighter then than the games before that and definitely not since.  

[VillaParkAvenue]

2 hours ago, nick76 said:

Gerrard didn’t tighten up at all in those games.  I don’t think we were tight at all those games, we just had everybody giving everything, it was raw energy and mentality hence why I thought my pre appointment worries may have been wrong.  The team were like Gerrard the player so I got excited.  The team weren’t tighter then than they are now, it was just players playing full pelt which was awesome.  After that sixth game we haven’t seen any of that since, hence for me it was a new manager bounce, players wanting to prove to the new manager.  I never thought we were tighter then than the games before that and definitely not since.  

IMO we definitely were tighter in those first Gerrard games, with focus on defending in a narrow shape and forcing the opposition wide. and having very little possession.

It was obvious that SG wanted to play differently, and when he had more time he tried to implement a more expansive style. That still hasn’t clicked and the more we work on it, the worse we get.

[Keyblade]

2 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

From what he said after the Man City game, I think he intends to batton down the hatches against the big teams and Nick the odd point. Then against the other teams play a more open style. The trouble is there aren’t really any poor teams, or at least not many in the PL who you can play like that against and win. You always have to earn the right to play in this league. I think he probably knows this but his approach is too simplistic. 

In other words, he's flailing. I think he's just out of his depth, and I can't really blame him. He's only just started his 5th season as a manager. 

[Zatman]

16 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

In other words, he's flailing. I think he's just out of his depth, and I can't really blame him. He's only just started his 5th season as a manager. 

Its so clear he is out of his depth when the manager he beat to win his trophy is managing and under pressure in the Cypriot league managing Gary Hooper and Adam Matthews

[Tomaszk]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

Its so clear he is out of his depth when the manager he beat to win his trophy is managing and under pressure in the Cypriot league managing Gary Hooper and Adam Matthews

Jeez. Tragic.

What a mess we're in.

[Pinebro]

13 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

It is a concern but you have to add some context to it. When Gerrard took over there was genuine worry’s about relegation until we won’t 5 in 7 I think it was. Then we were pretty much safe and the team almost seemed to play that way.

I think the same will happen again. It’s nowhere near good enough under Gerrard but I’m also not in the slightest concerned of relegation. Maybe I’m being naive. 

Last season Beale was still here. 

Feels like another losing O Kelly moment. 

Not sure Gerrard is gonna make it without his main guy. 

[DaveAV1]

11 hours ago, Keyblade said:

In other words, he's flailing. I think he's just out of his depth, and I can't really blame him. He's only just started his 5th season as a manager. 

I agree. SG’s appointment had an element of risk, designed primarily to raise the club’s profile but that had to be backed up by actually moving the club forward in practical terms, ie. winning football matches. That’s not happening and the club is stagnating. The much vaunted continuous progress isn’t happening. 

We’re all front and no substance. If this continues for much longer our stagnation becomes a crisis, with players wanting to leave and new players reluctant to join us. Players running contracts down isn’t unique to us but it seems to be happening more frequently. The man in charge, who made what is rapidly becoming a very poor decision, regarding the managerial appointment at least, needs to act to address this quickly and decisively. If he can’t or won’t then he should be removed and replaced with someone who can and will. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by DaveAV1

[DaveAV1]

2 hours ago, Pinebro said:

Last season Beale was still here. 

Feels like another losing O Kelly moment. 

Not sure Gerrard is gonna make it without his main guy. 

Do big clubs keep losing senior coaches? Something is wrong behind the scenes. 

Edited September 14, 2022 by DaveAV1

[The Fun Factory]

16 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

I know it sounds odd and it’s really shit being in a relegation scrap. It does make the games in the latter part of the season more exciting than mid table mediocrity which I believe is what we’ll have under Gerrard. He won’t push us on but our squad is way to good to worry about relegation. I don’t care what anyone says.   
 

We’re in that gap between top half and not genuinely worrying about relegation. A place Southampton, Brighton and Palace have made their own in recent years. It’s pretty boring. 
 

Maybe we’ll get a good cup run. 

Come on, we all know we won't get that free cup ticket.

[MaVilla]

2 hours ago, Pinebro said:

Last season Beale was still here. 

Feels like another losing O Kelly moment. 

Not sure Gerrard is gonna make it without his main guy. 

we werent much better with Beale, the rot had set in half way through Gerrards tenure last season, its not just this season alone.

I think the fact is, the tactics and formation Gerrard wants to play, are sh** regardless of who coaches it, these tactics might work if you are peak Liverpool, but defo not Villa for where we are right now.

Funnily enough, i remember when Klopp first joined Liverpool, when he implemented this tactic they were leaking goals left, right and centre, i remember people questioning his tactic saying "they dont have the players to play like they are, its suicidal", but over a couple of windows they went out and bought a few world class players, which allowed the tactic to work.

We dont have that luxury.

[DCJonah]

14 hours ago, TRO said:

I think the correlation between, player capabilty and set up, is paramount......We are trying to do things, we can't do.

Understanding what players can and can't do, might be his flaw.......I hope he is learning, because, unless he gets this right, frustration will breed.

What works at Liverpool (Most of the time) does not necessarily work with us, due to the disparity, in player quality and player attributes.

We are not good enough to bomb on, or take teams apart offensively....we need to be more stealth like and measured in our transitions....We need to be more savvy, in acquiring points....and that means managing games better.

That might disappoint some who want to see swashbuckling football....but I say, we are not ready for that, mentally, physically or technically.....We all want to see that, but so do other teams fans......Prudency, must be adopted, and expectation during a game, rained in.

Steven Gerrad, still has a lot to learn, in management......I hope he is given to time to iron out his mistakes.

 

What are these complex things that a team worth hundreds of millions and with, I believe, the 7th/8th highest wage bill in the league, can't possibly do?

Have we ever attempted this swashbuckling football under Gerrard? 

Please remind me when.

[Tomaszk]

14 hours ago, TRO said:

Steven Gerrad, still has a lot to learn, in management......I hope he is given to time to iron out his mistakes.

Why?

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 hour ago, MaVilla said:

we werent much better with Beale, the rot had set in half way through Gerrards tenure last season, its not just this season alone.

I think the fact is, the tactics and formation Gerrard wants to play, are sh** regardless of who coaches it, these tactics might work if you are peak Liverpool, but defo not Villa for where we are right now.

Funnily enough, i remember when Klopp first joined Liverpool, when he implemented this tactic they were leaking goals left, right and centre, i remember people questioning his tactic saying "they dont have the players to play like they are, its suicidal", but over a couple of windows they went out and bought a few world class players, which allowed the tactic to work.

We dont have that luxury.

I think Gerrard playing his way and also tweaks to be more defensive when needed will have us finishing around 11th-14th. Mainly because of the quality we have in our squad. 

A better coach/manager could maybe have us finishing top half and pushing towards top 8. 

[sharkyvilla]

1 hour ago, Tomaszk said:

Why?

It can only be blind hope at this stage.