VT’s Music Chat

[Xann]

My little gang got in via...

... and...

... and this is the absolute tits.

 

Edited January 11 by Xann

[blandy]

13 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

because the vast majority of 60’s stuff was generic bands jumping on a bandwagon and they’d have been just as happy playing skiffle or light music if that was popular wiv da yoof. Very few bands meant it in any artistic way. The vast majority of music produced in the 60’s was dross. Competent, yes. Innovative? Saying something others weren’t saying? Not to my ear, from my point in time. Same point goes for every decade.

Every day a mate sends me a song from whenever. He only sends stuff he likes. There are 30 odd people he does this with, and we each reply (unseen by anyone else). So he gets replies like “[that song] reminds me [this song] or [this band]” or whatever, and there’s an ever expanding blob of recco’s he can pull from and keep it going. But because of the random nature of what he sends, what you said about generic bands really stands out as exactly that. The 60s stuff the most. But all decades to an extent. I click the link before reading the message and can mostly guess the year to within about 3 years accuracy. So much of the 60s stuff is “just like someone else’s song”. I think it’s maybe because the labels were basically hit factories, deliver aiming to repeat what had gone before. SAW did the same in the late 80s was it with Kylie and Astley and so on. Formulaic pop. Landfill indie in the 90s the same.

[chrisp65]

6 hours ago, blandy said:

Every day a mate sends me a song from whenever. He only sends stuff he likes. There are 30 odd people he does this with, and we each reply (unseen by anyone else). So he gets replies like “[that song] reminds me [this song] or [this band]” or whatever, and there’s an ever expanding blob of recco’s he can pull from and keep it going. But because of the random nature of what he sends, what you said about generic bands really stands out as exactly that. The 60s stuff the most. But all decades to an extent. I click the link before reading the message and can mostly guess the year to within about 3 years accuracy. So much of the 60s stuff is “just like someone else’s song”. I think it’s maybe because the labels were basically hit factories, deliver aiming to repeat what had gone before. SAW did the same in the late 80s was it with Kylie and Astley and so on. Formulaic pop. Landfill indie in the 90s the same.

I just did a random sample of one, I googled UK top sellers of 1964. Cilla Black had two songs in the top 10.

I ended my research there.

We forget Cilla Black, Charlie Drake, Val Doonican, Jonathan King, and Ken Dodd, we remember the generic hit machine pop stuff, and we distinctly remember Jimi Hendrix. 

 

 

 

[Mark Albrighton]

My folks had a cassette tape of hits from 1964 that would regularly be played in the car.

Cilla’s “Anyone who had a heart” was featured. In fairness, it is one of the few songs that I can say for certain was on there. Cilla and two songs from Manfred Mann.

[bickster]

The 60s are really two periods though in my head there's a divide at roughly 1967

[Seat68]

17 minutes ago, bickster said:

The 60s are really two periods though in my head there's a divide at roughly 1967

Arguably and this isn't to get a rise, pre beat groups, post beat groups and post 67.

[mjmooney]

44 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

Arguably and this isn't to get a rise, pre beat groups, post beat groups and post 67.

Yes. 

[chrisp65]

55 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

Arguably and this isn't to get a rise, pre beat groups, post beat groups and post 67.

Skiffle.

Merseybeat.

Drugs.

 

 

[bickster]

24 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Skiffle.

Merseybeat.

Drugs.

 

 

Mostly shite

Much better

 

[bickster]

1 hour ago, Seat68 said:

Arguably and this isn't to get a rise, pre beat groups, post beat groups and post 67.

nah because your wording suggests there's an unnamed beat groups period unless thats like ya knows... the birth of christ  

[veloman]

Of course there was some terrible stuff produced in the 60's but you really had to be there, listening to the radio to appreciate the huge difference  when "beat groups" came along,  In the early 60's we were fed a diet of (mainly) Italian/American crooners. Even the Beach Boys first came to notice with a Chuck Berry knock off ( Surfin' USA). In fact there was a widely held belief that the music industry was controlled by the Mafia, hence the Italian connection, and there was a concsious effort to exclude Black 'pop' music.. The likes of The Beatles and The Hollies played their own arrangements of Black American numbers. The same could be said of the 70's which spawned some truly awful stuff - Marc Bolan, Bay Sity Rollers  et al and then the likes of Weather Report and Chicago (and Steely Dan !!). Don't have that situation today - it's nearly all computer enhanced garbage.

[bickster]

20 minutes ago, veloman said:

Don't have that situation today - it's nearly all computer enhanced garbage.

It really isn't

[chrisp65]

5 minutes ago, veloman said:

Of course there was some terrible stuff produced in the 60's but you really had to be there, listening to the radio to appreciate the huge difference  when "beat groups" came along,  In the early 60's we were fed a diet of (mainly) Italian/American crooners. Even the Beach Boys first came to notice with a Chuck Berry knock off ( Surfin' USA). In fact there was a widely held belief that the music industry was controlled by the Mafia, hence the Italian connection, and there was a concsious effort to exclude Black 'pop' music.. The likes of The Beatles and The Hollies played their own arrangements of Black American numbers. The same could be said of the 70's which spawned some truly awful stuff - Marc Bolan, Bay Sity Rollers  et al and then the likes of Weather Report and Chicago (and Steely Dan !!). Don't have that situation today - it's nearly all computer enhanced garbage.

 

Kids today, in my day it was proper music.

See, on the one hand you can appreciate there was rubbish in the 60’s but you had to be there in the moment. Which is fair. But then, 50 or 60 years older, the music is now nearly all rubbish. 

The gigs I’ve been to in the last 12 months, I haven’t seen a computer. The albums I’ve bought in 2023, lots of singer songwriter stuff with actual instruments and an ensemble feel as they all lend a hand on each other's work.

Loads of crap in the 60’s, loads of crap now. Good stuff always, if you’re interested.

I hope I die before I get old, as someone somewhere once said.

 

[veloman]

24 minutes ago, bickster said:

It really isn't

Alright then, computer aided. Voice autotune; click tracks etc. A number of books I have read recently indicate this ; mostly drummiing oriented  I admit.  A bloke I played with was involved with a Robbie Williams production and he said that he certainly used it. A bass player I played with worked for BRMB; he had equipment which could detect a click track and a significant number of records used them. Don't think Keith Moon or Ginger Baker would have !

[Designer1]

49 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

 

Loads of crap in the 60’s, loads of crap now. Good stuff always, if you’re interested.

This is it innit.

You could probably change the 60's to a fair few other decades too.

Good (and bad) music spans a **** long period of time. Sometimes you might just need to put a bit of effort in to find it.

[bickster]

19 minutes ago, veloman said:

Alright then, computer aided. Voice autotune; click tracks etc. A number of books I have read recently indicate this ; mostly drummiing oriented  I admit.  A bloke I played with was involved with a Robbie Williams production and he said that he certainly used it. A bass player I played with worked for BRMB; he had equipment which could detect a click track and a significant number of records used them. Don't think Keith Moon or Ginger Baker would have !

A click track is a glorified metronome and even the click track has been predominantly been replaced by code these days.

I think the first acknowledged use of a click track is in the film Steamboat Willy in the 1930s

Don't fool yourself into thinking click tracks are anything new

[fightoffyour]

Do you like Matt Berninger? I've been a big The National fan ever since the release of their 2005 album, Alligator. Before that, I really didn't understand any of their work. Too artsy, too intellectual. It was on Alligator where Matt Berninger’s presence became more apparent. I think Boxer was the group's undisputed masterpiece. It's an epic meditation on intangibility. At the same time, it deepens and enriches the meaning of the preceding three albums. Listen to the brilliant ensemble playing of the Dessners, Berninger and the Devendorfs. You can practically hear every nuance of every instrument. In terms of lyrical craftsmanship, the sheer songwriting, this album hits a new peak of professionalism. Take the lyrics to Fake Empire. In this song, Matt Berninger addresses the problems of abusive political authority. Slow Show is the most moving pop song of the 2000s, about monogamy and commitment. The song is extremely uplifting. Their lyrics are as positive and affirmative as anything I've heard in rock. Matt Berninger’s solo career seems to be more commercial and therefore more satisfying, in a narrower way. Especially songs like Loved So Little and Oh Drearie. But I also think Matt Berninger works best within the confines of the group, than as a solo artist, and I stress the word artist. This is Return To The Moon, a great, great song, a personal favorite.

[blandy]

3 hours ago, fightoffyour said:

Do you like Matt Berninger? I've been a big The National fan ever since the release of their 2005 album, Alligator

From “Sad songs for dirty lovers” I’ve been a fan, and they did maybe 4 cracking albums on the bounce, but the last one I bought was “Sleep well beast”, which was just ok. Since then not so much. But he’s clearly a talented singer and musician.

[fightoffyour]

3 hours ago, blandy said:

From “Sad songs for dirty lovers” I’ve been a fan, and they did maybe 4 cracking albums on the bounce, but the last one I bought was “Sleep well beast”, which was just ok. Since then not so much. But he’s clearly a talented singer and musician.

I’d listen to a recording of him fart, but by all accounts the latest album Laugh Track of last year’s double effort was a real return to form of at least SWB heights.

[chrisp65]