foreveryoung Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 We have arguably one of the best teams of recent times. The problem is, they can only play specific ways, an unfortunately not the way Gerrard is trying. These days you have to use the full width of the pitch. It might work up North with all the big cloggers they have, Moreles etc, but certainly not down here in the Prem. If you want any proof of the best system, just look at Man City, yes they have better players, but it's how we have to start playing, an we can play that way, we have caused them problems, with our quick passing game. Gerrard just keeps going back to this narrow, slow game, which is so easy for opposition to work out, they just use the full width of the pitch, we then can't manage, they literally bypass our midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpTheVilla26 Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 We can talk about players running more, individual mistakes, buying this player and that but until we have a manager who has a clue how to setup a team, utilising the squad he has and working on the obvious frailties, none of it matters one bit. I expect v West Ham we will see another different team selection yet in the same formation which is killing us. The owners need to be brave and bite the bullet. They allowed Purslow to push this appointment through, solely based on what he did in a very weak League with 1 of only 2 clubs who ever win it and the risk hasn't paid off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 1 minute ago, UpTheVilla26 said: We can talk about players running more, individual mistakes, buying this player and that but until we have a manager who has a clue how to setup a team, utilising the squad he has and working on the obvious frailties, none of it matters one bit. I expect v West Ham we will see another different team selection yet in the same formation which is killing us. The owners need to be brave and bite the bullet. They allowed Purslow to push this appointment through, solely based on what he did in a very weak League with 1 of only 2 clubs who ever win it and the risk hasn't paid off. I'm just hoping Purslow and crew don't play the Arteta long game, thinking it'll come good. Although I don't think Arteta lost as many games, an he was having issues with recruitment and the Aubameyang drama which may have give him extra time. Not sure Gerrard has many excuses, losing Carlos maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 How easy we are to play against is a concern. But let’s just say he tightened that up, we don’t seem to be able to defend set pieces, corners and second balls either so will leak goals that way instead. We really do look a bit of a mess at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 I hope Gerrard has taken a few minutes to read Vieira's comments about how easy it was to set up to play against Villa. Cash and Digne predictably bomb up the touchlines and are stranded as soon as we give the ball away, so Vieira doubled up on whoever was trying to cover the space behind them. Zaha and Eze were able to run riot around Konsa because we try and defend with just two separated CB's plus Kamara covering a huge vacated central area. The reason that there is a huge empty hole in midfield (except for an isolated Kamara) is also visibly simple. McGinn drops into the touchline space behind Cash as he bombs forward, and Ramsey does the same for Digne, both as high cover for the out of position wing backs, and to receive the backwards pass that is usually the outcome as MC and LD are closed down. The average 90 minute positions graph points this out very clearly. Contrast that with Palace .... Schlupp and Ayew on their right and Eze and Zaha on their left double teamed our one isolated defender down either side by getting the ball forward quickly into the space behind the high and often ineffective cover of Ramsey and McGinn. There was acres of space for Palace to exploit whenever we pushed up. Another glaring contrast was the fact that Viera used his skilful midfielders to run us ragged in the space between the halfway line and our goal while Gerrard insisted on using wing backs as our main option to progress the ball from half way to corner flag. We were lucky to only lose 3-1 yesterday as we could (and probably should) have conceded 5 or 6 goals. I must admit even from my usual positive point of view, it is mystifying that fans can see the reasons for another poor Villa performance but SG/NC /GM don't appear to see the need to change this failing system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 52 minutes ago, CVByrne said: I think it's easy to say we don't have a good enough Midfield three. When it's a huge amount about the system and the massive burden placed on the midfield with the system. The ultra attacking full backs leaves the two 8s covering for them and with a proper 6 in Kamara he's sitting deep. This leaves a gaping hole in front of him. When we play a diamond that hole is covered by our 10. Which makes Gerrards use of a 4 3 3 twice this season with wide forwards so baffling. He's trying to have us create more chances but he's gone from having two 10s covering the midfield to nobody. The only solution to our Midfield problem is to play a Midfield diamond or to change the way the full backs play so one of them has to stay back if the other has got forward. I can only assume signing of Sarr while we have Bailey is to have them be the flanks of a 4 3 3 with Watkins up top at times and the fullbacks not providing the width. We could play a 4 2 3 1 quite easily or a 4 3 3 if the fullbacks changed the way they play to the steering wheel system of one goes forward the other stays back. I was just typing basically the same thing when you posted this. We have to stop using our full backs as out of position attackers and allow wide midfielders to do their job. Our interest in Saar may indicate that Gerrard has realised this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, useless said: Funny thing is if we'd have won yesterday it would have meant that since Gerrard came in only Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea, Spurs, and Newcasle would have taken more points than us in that time. But on the flip side, we're one of the worst teams in the league in 2022, before Everton game even Burnley had taken more Premier League points than us in 2022. When Gerrard came in it was all about points however we got them. We played very defensively, packed the middle of the pitch and hit teams on the break. It worked. Then after that point when we looked safe he has tried to implement his own style and philosophy which I’m fine with and understand it takes to time to work. But after all this time the players are looking more and more uncomfortable with it each week. Confidence is getting badly affected. They really need a lift from somewhere. Edited August 21, 2022 by Vive_La_Villa 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Yeah exactly. Changing view on Gerrard doesn't automatically mean it was wrong to let Deano go. I'm currently watching UTV podcast, they are now on about " average position " on the pitch. Absolutely nothing in the middle As they also said, we aren't even Managers, but from before the match, we all knew the diagonal ball from Anderson to Zaha would be a problem, so surely Management should have known this? Or maybe they did but just never addressed it? Don't get it. Anyway, SG needs to adapt and/or change philosophy or his written his own P45. It's not a time for stubbornness, it's a time for common sense. Even the most positive podcasters seem to have lost faith, or very close. Yeh his system is killing the confidence of the players to. Either they can’t implement what he wants or it just ain’t working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 16 hours ago, Bazmonkey said: Absolutely...you can't learn your trade...in reply to the being on the same level....yes we are in which case will we lose a few games against these same level teams as they will fancy their chances against us and we against them...that puts us in 13th 14th 15th bracket. Over the past three seasons we have won a few...and lost a few so thats our level. Gerrard has made mistakes...selection....mainly formation...and is learning his trade....at the same time so are the players..many have come from lesser leagues across Europe....even here in championship or Scotland...but like I say...we have had Bruce....Smith and Gerrard...some of these players may have had all three (correct me if I'm wrong) but at least two amd we still see the same mistakes or lack of improvement...thats not Gerrard fault...some are just not good enough....along with the manager out of likes....but you have a point. I get the "Learning his trade"....but some of these mistakes, Doris the tea lady wouldn't make....we shouldn't have to tell a internationally renowned midfielder, what a midfield should look like. some of the mistakes are mind boggling.....what is he seeing in Konsa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 (edited) 19 minutes ago, TRO said: out of likes....but you have a point. I get the "Learning his trade"....but some of these mistakes, Doris the tea lady wouldn't make....we shouldn't have to tell a internationally renowned midfielder, what a midfield should look like. some of the mistakes are mind boggling.....what is he seeing in Konsa? Mistakes come from lack of confidence in my opinion. But it’s up to a manager to instil this confidence in to players. For example their right back Ward is hardly a great Premier League player. Yet I saw him put a cross in that was better than anything our whole team has served up all season. That is nothing to do with systems or tactics, it’s just confidence and self belief. Gerrard just isn’t getting this from the players. Edited August 21, 2022 by Vive_La_Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thug Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 It’s not even the personnel. All these players have shown they’re capable either with us or with previous clubs. We’re just set up wrong, and are devoid of any confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 Do we think signing Sarr indicates a change in approach and formation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Thug Posted August 21, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted August 21, 2022 Just now, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Do we think signing Sarr indicates a change in approach and formation? No. I think it shows a complete lack of understanding of what is wrong with the team. We already have capable wingers. We just don’t have the system to make any use of them. Having Sarr instead of Bailey or Traore will be the same problem with a different player. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 Just now, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Do we think signing Sarr indicates a change in approach and formation? I think it’s just an opportunistic signing. We saw the opening for a young, PL experienced player and (soon to) picked him up. No idea how he fits in Gerrard’s system and not a priority so that lends it to being an opportunistic signing imo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Do we think signing Sarr indicates a change in approach and formation? I think Sarr can play the wide forward role Gerrard seems to want. It won’t fix the fundamental problem of the players losing all belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 54 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said: I was just typing basically the same thing when you posted this. We have to stop using our full backs as out of position attackers and allow wide midfielders to do their job. Our interest in Saar may indicate that Gerrard has realised this. Yeah it has to mean that. I'm not as downbeat as other Villa fans about our start to the season because it's clear as day what our problems are and the solution isn't complicated. If we played 442 diamond in the first three games we would have been better for sure. We would have had a threat against Bournemouth and their 3 man defence and we would have had a man extra in midfield yesterday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvonVillain Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 19 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Do we think signing Sarr indicates a change in approach and formation? No. I think it means we're looking to bring in more coaches! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 Be more than happy if we brought in a new coach and tried a Chelsea type 3-4-2-1 considering the squad we have. Obviously losing Carlos means we might need a new CB but we kinda do that regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 2 hours ago, villabromsgrove said: I must admit even from my usual positive point of view, it is mystifying that fans can see the reasons for another poor Villa performance but SG/NC /GM don't appear to see the need to change this failing system. They clearly see it, they're just reluctant to change it because it's such a significant change. We need wide forwards to create width, we need Midfielders to not cover full backs and to contribute more in attack. We need full backs to defend more and join the midfield more. It's a total system change and a reset of how we play and then that'll take time to build up our attacking play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daft Posted August 21, 2022 Share Posted August 21, 2022 1 hour ago, Thug said: No. I think it shows a complete lack of understanding of what is wrong with the team. We already have capable wingers. We just don’t have the system to make any use of them. Having Sarr instead of Bailey or Traore will be the same problem with a different player. Yeah, entertain the notion that this is true. You have to realize that we aren't just evaluation players and performances based on what Gerrard sees. If what you say is I'm fact true, and it might as well be, we either have not a single person that sees the issues with their eyes, no performance analytics department that knows their job, or SG is refusing to listen to any of them. If it is a case of the data and analytics guys being shit, we are in serious, dire trouble and no shift of manager will help unless they can bring in a whole new department. If it's a case of SG just not listening and doing his own thing, we are absolutely in dire straits unless someone throws him pit STAT. Because that is not a trait our manager should have. That leaves some very, very, very serious issues on the table in both cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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