Team shape, tactics and personnel

[TRO]

2 hours ago, sne said:

But until we can sign new player what would you do? Just give up?

I would never give up, under any circumstances.....but when you know whats wrong, and it can't be corrected,until the window opens....... beating yourself up (or SG) at every opportunity, is not a solution either.

[sne]

44 minutes ago, TRO said:

I would never give up, under any circumstances.....but when you know whats wrong, and it can't be corrected,until the window opens....... beating yourself up (or SG) at every opportunity, is not a solution either.

Sure, but how would you line up for the rest of the season?

[andym]

1 hour ago, CVByrne said:

Yeah I think that's why we've stuck with the 3 man midfield as to play the attacking fullbacks needs the midfielders to cover for them defensively. To change to a 4 2 3 1 means you cannot have your fullbacks attacking so much as it leaves only 4 defensive players and even more gaps at the back. 

That still 1 more defensive player than we seem to have at the moment, given the amount of times we see the two CB's stretched with Luiz trying to cover all the space between (and its even worse when Luiz is told to press as well)

Plenty of teams still manage to get full backs forward from all sorts of formations. In fact, i'd suggest a formation/tactics where they're not designated/designed as the main creative route actually results in them being more effective.

They are much better when they get a run on an opponent as part of an over/underlap, working an overload with a midfield/forward. That's how Liverpool, City etc do it. 

As it is, we are keeping them high, forcing the ball to them when they are static and tight to the touchline, then expecting them to take on the 1 or 2 opposition players who are infront of them from a standing start. They havent got the skill or pace to do it.

If Gerrard is going to persist with his approach, we need to be much more fluid in how its implemented on the pitch. Atm, its obvious to opposition managers we are going to force the ball to our high full backs no matter what, so all they need to do is sit in, wait for us to turn it over, and hit us in transition.

 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

4 hours ago, sne said:

But until we can sign new player what would you do? Just give up?

@TRO has passed the vibe check.

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I would never give up, under any circumstances.....but when you know whats wrong, and it can't be corrected,until the window opens....... beating yourself up (or SG) at every opportunity, is not a solution either.

Edited April 13, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Anything11]

12 hours ago, CVByrne said:

I think Gerrard wants a midfielder to be captain next season. So it'll be interesting what happens there. Also with Mings I think if he has less responsibility he can focus more on his game. As Captain he feels like he has to rally the troops, but it's hard to have an attacking impact on the team when we go behind as a CB. Also he's the primary player to play out from the back as Konsa is woeful at it.

 

I admittedly haven't focused on this point to date but is Konsa really that bad or are teams pressing to ensure Mings ends up with the ball as he is likely to punt it back to them? Or could it be both?

[VillaParkAvenue]

2 hours ago, Anything11 said:

 

I admittedly haven't focused on this point to date but is Konsa really that bad or are teams pressing to ensure Mings ends up with the ball as he is likely to punt it back to them? Or could it be both?

I’m sure other teams scout us enough to know about the basic way we build. It’s usually Mings and Luiz involved from deep while fullbacks advance. So, it doesn’t really matter if Konsa or Mings has the ball since Konsa will usually give it back to Mings before advancing further.

That said, for teams that press high it’s always nice when the opposition gets nervous and plays long. When Mings has options to play a shorter pass up the pitch, he doesn’t hoof it.

Edited April 14, 2022 by VillaParkAvenue

[CVByrne]

2 hours ago, Anything11 said:

 

I admittedly haven't focused on this point to date but is Konsa really that bad or are teams pressing to ensure Mings ends up with the ball as he is likely to punt it back to them? Or could it be both?

Not all teams press the defence. Actually the majority of teams in Premier League don't play a high press.

Konsa has incredibly low stats in passing department. Passes attempted as low as it comes. Short passing which is key for the playing from the back is just woeful compared to other CBs especially as he has so many easy ones to play.

Ming's is the CB who ends up with the ball as we play from the back. Our CBs can be in our box so pass to either Konsa who passes a lot to Mings or it goes straight to Ming's. That's why Ming's stats in the passes attempted have improved week over week since Gerrard came in as he's taking the responsibility. Ming's also carries the ball into Midfield a lot too. 

Ming's has similar pass completion rate as Konsa but he is taking on all the difficult passes out from defence. Ming's makes almost double the passes Konsa does. He also plays more passes under pressure thank Konsa (who again is bottom of the stats there). Neither however are any good at it in terms of the level needed. 

 

 

[CVByrne]

1 hour ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

I’m sure other teams scout us enough to know about the basic way we build. It’s usually Mings and Luiz involved from deep while fullbacks advance. So, it doesn’t really matter if Konsa or Mings has the ball since Konsa will usually give it back to Mings before advancing further.

That said, for teams that press high it’s always nice when the opposition gets nervous and plays long. When Mings has options to play a shorter pass up the pitch, he doesn’t hoof it.

Which basically tells you that Gerrard / Beale know Mings is the better of the two to build up play from the back. Ideally a team needs one of the CBs to be very good passer or the ball and play out through him and the central midfielder. 

Ruben Diaz had the most passes of any player in the league last season as an example of this for City. 

[Anything11]

16 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Not all teams press the defence. Actually the majority of teams in Premier League don't play a high press.

Konsa has incredibly low stats in passing department. Passes attempted as low as it comes. Short passing which is key for the playing from the back is just woeful compared to other CBs especially as he has so many easy ones to play.

Ming's is the CB who ends up with the ball as we play from the back. Our CBs can be in our box so pass to either Konsa who passes a lot to Mings or it goes straight to Ming's. That's why Ming's stats in the passes attempted have improved week over week since Gerrard came in as he's taking the responsibility. Ming's also carries the ball into Midfield a lot too. 

Ming's has similar pass completion rate as Konsa but he is taking on all the difficult passes out from defence. Ming's makes almost double the passes Konsa does. He also plays more passes under pressure thank Konsa (who again is bottom of the stats there). Neither however are any good at it in terms of the level needed. 

 

 

Ok fair enough. I suspected as much.

I don't think Luiz does enough to offer an option coming out from the back. He does well dropping into a back 3 but when in front of the back 2 he doesn't make himself available as much as I would like. I have been watching other 6's (in better teams) and the diamond between GK - CB - CB - CDM is the main route out. Once the ball goes to a fullback it is over.

[CVByrne]

24 minutes ago, Anything11 said:

Ok fair enough. I suspected as much.

I don't think Luiz does enough to offer an option coming out from the back. He does well dropping into a back 3 but when in front of the back 2 he doesn't make himself available as much as I would like. I have been watching other 6's (in better teams) and the diamond between GK - CB - CB - CDM is the main route out. Once the ball goes to a fullback it is over.

WhoScored has both Konsa and Mings weaknesses as passing. Shows how desperate we need a new CB. I do agree the midfield is a key element as they have a role to play in receiving the ball, their movement and how capable they are receiving the ball under pressure. 

[Dante_Lockhart]

If that first half performance was anything to go by then I look forward to seeing us progress on it. We got unlucky with Lloris playing his game of the season against us (seems to happen a lot) - but if we put away the chances the game changes, the mood changes, the belief changes. I really think a lot of the issues aren't necessarily the players being shit like some people say, I think it's a psychological barrier. Get past that and we'll see a huge difference in results.

[Phil Silvers]

Behind closed doors practice game Vs Brentford this Friday, like it.

 

Edited April 14, 2022 by Phil Silvers

[Tom13]

39 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said:

Behind closed doors practice game Vs Brentford this Friday, like it.

 

Be interested to see the lineup for this one

[Phil Silvers]

5 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

Be interested to see the lineup for this one

Very, I'm thinking a few feathers may be ruffled.

[Zatman]

3 minutes ago, Phil Silvers said:

Very, I'm thinking a few feathers may be ruffled.

In a friendly

[Tom13]

I did think that

[duke313]

20 minutes ago, Tom13 said:

Be interested to see the lineup for this one

We should see Nakamba back hopefully.

[duke313]

The 4-3-1-2 seems to be the best system SG has used so far, I much prefer it to the 4-3-2-1 with two 10's.  I wonder if it was altered slightly to a 4-1-3-2 with the central CM staying back as a DM, and the 10 sitting deeper in central midfield.  Luiz was advancing out of position too much to press their midfield, which should have been the AM job.

[weedman]

Just now, Tom13 said:

Oh I'm getting confused! Why no game this weekend?

No idea, I'm assuming some combination of rescheduled games and cup competitions but at least it allows us all a stress free bank holiday weekend! 

[Phil Silvers]

I think a couple might have been told to find themselves another club, maybe they won't get another look in. I would give Tim Iroegbunam 45 mins and the same for Marv. I would also try a front 3 of Bailey Coutihno and Buendia. Chambers comes in for me too. I'd see what we look like without McGinn too.