paul514 Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 10 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: FACT CHECK: Nottingham Forest literally did exactly that. Are we run at the same level Forrest are? no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 21 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: So in terms of the regulations, what would we have booked as profit on him last summer - if we're able to book the 'agreed' figure rather than the delivered increment then it's a work of genius. Not sure that would be the case though. In terms of contract, does anyone know how long he'll come back to us carrying? If he has a few years left, I guess a loan is more viable whereas if it's only one or two we might need to cash in earlier rather than later. This years accounts will show profit of £18m on player trading so this is included with other income in PSR calculation and squad cost rule for UEFA (which takes player transfer average over pervious 3 years into account). We resign Archer this summer for 14m on a 4 year deal with a £2m salary. So our annual cost is £5.5m per year 14 / 4 = 3.5m + 2m So if we sold him for 14m we'd have zero profit or loss from his transfer. If we sold him for 10m + 4m add ons we'd book a 4m loss and if / when add ons are triggered they are income in the particular season they were triggered. Obviously if we sell a player we don't pay them salary nor can they play for us. I would assume the club are open to selling him or loaning him with an obligation to buy or a buy option. Sheffield United might be open to Loaning him next season knowing how well he performs in Championship and agree to a buy option if they are promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 On 03/05/2024 at 13:10, Czarnikjak said: We are at risk, hence we asking for extra £30m. However, we can easily generate that £30m by selling a player if other clubs won't agree to the rules change. We won't get any points deducted, we have too many assets we can easily sell to generate that amount. I certainly cannot see other 13 teams voting for it to help us out though, so we will be selling for profit. The reason we have asked for the limit to be increased for end of next season is Jacks 100m rolls off our PSR calculations and we have more room to manoeuvre and other clubs would too like Everton, Forest, Chelsea, United and newly promoted clubs. In relation to this seasons PSR there is no way the club has budgeted for us to get 4th and make semi finals of ECL. So our over performance this season has yielded £15m+ I'm sure. I've said it multiple times from the calculations we will be ok for PSR this season with boosted revenue and costs of firing Gerrard and team and paying release to hire Emery are off. Plus our sales of players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 18 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: So from a PSR perspective, as a seller, a one year loan with a £1m fee banks you a million, but selling a player for £5m and buying him back for £4m a year later banks you £5m and you still have the player. And as a buyer, buying a player for £5m over five years means you amortise him at £1m a year and take that PSR hit, then selling him a year later for £4m means you come out even on PSR (four years of one million) and have paid a million pounds for one year of that player? This is why the rules make it better for you to turn over your squad more regularly by selling and buying players. This is what City do well on top of all their other advantages. Chelsea do this very well too. So expect to see more from us in this type of activity. Especially as Jacks 100m is rolling off next season. That big income chunk has fuelled a lot of our ability to spend. We need to keep some net profit in the player transfer accounts. It's critical. Hence I see Tim Iroegbunam and KKH being sold this summer more likely. Maybe Sinisalo too. With buy backs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 5 Moderator Share Posted May 5 3 hours ago, CVByrne said: This is why the rules make it better for you to turn over your squad more regularly by selling and buying players. This is what City do well on top of all their other advantages. Chelsea do this very well too. If you look at what Chelsea and City do, they almost do this separately to their main squad - they maintain a working squad of around 25 players (and with City, pretty consistently) then have another squad of around 20 players that seem to be around only for player trading - City have a whole host of valuable young players that they have no intention of bringing through and Chelsea's use of the loan system is very well documented. Over time, I think that's something we can do - but it's almost separate to where we are - we have a squad and kids, both of those sides have two squads, one for business and one for pleasure, and then their youth teams. In a sensible world there would be rules preventing them doing that, but there aren't, and we're a ways away from it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 5 Moderator Share Posted May 5 5 hours ago, CVByrne said: We resign Archer this summer for 14m on a 4 year deal with a £2m salary. Jeepers I hope not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 Seeing that Chelsea are apparently selling their training ground to themselves, I wonder if anyone has any idea how much Bodymoor Heath could be worth (fair market value)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummybloke Posted May 15 Share Posted May 15 Sansom sale goes on this seasons accounts, ok only 4 million but 4 million more than nothing. Any replacement I guess will be on next year's accounts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 Saw the Sun saying “we have to sell and get £50m” but saying FFP is three year debt at £105m and we are at £119m. doesnt make sense… also we just netted £12m prize money above our 7th position last season (you get £4m per position). So that surely covers most of our over spend? What have I missed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calcifer Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 3 minutes ago, kidlewis said: Saw the Sun saying “we have to sell and get £50m” but saying FFP is three year debt at £105m and we are at £119m. doesnt make sense… also we just netted £12m prize money above our 7th position last season (you get £4m per position). So that surely covers most of our over spend? What have I missed? Media fabricating stories in the hope we get booted out the CL at a guess.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 12 minutes ago, kidlewis said: Saw the Sun saying “we have to sell and get £50m” but saying FFP is three year debt at £105m and we are at £119m. doesnt make sense… also we just netted £12m prize money above our 7th position last season (you get £4m per position). So that surely covers most of our over spend? What have I missed? You missed 224 pages of this thread. Not much of what they or you said is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 28 minutes ago, kidlewis said: Saw the Sun saying “we have to sell and get £50m” but saying FFP is three year debt at £105m and we are at £119m. doesnt make sense… also we just netted £12m prize money above our 7th position last season (you get £4m per position). So that surely covers most of our over spend? What have I missed? Champions League qualification must be worth circa £40m with TV/Sponsorship/Advertising etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 22 minutes ago, Czarnikjak said: You missed 224 pages of this thread. Not much of what they or you said is correct. Don’t have time to read 224 pages of content unfortunately hence the question for anyone who is more itk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 13 minutes ago, kidlewis said: Don’t have time to read 224 pages of content unfortunately hence the question for anyone who is more itk Don't have time to explain how FFP works, but there are other ways to plug in £50m hole, not just selling players. Chelsea are selling properties to themselves for example (we still own Bodymoor Heath). We could also get creative with accounting our new sponsorship deals. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaJ100 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 I'd imagine the players have champions league qualification bonuses in contracts meaning any league prize money will take a big dent. I wish I could remember where I saw it but someone (not swiss Ramble) took a deep dive into finances and excluding any new sponsorships or player sales we probably have about £30-35 mil this summer to spend on wages and transfers. Selling the duffers will bring in more so we might have 60-70 to spend. Not bad but not much for a Champions League team. The really interesting thing is if we can defer the new sponsorship and champions league money to next year's accounts. Then we'd have an absolute shit load to spend, well over 9 figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 I wonder if we owe any add-ons to selling clubs for add-ons related to player purchases. I’m thinking the likes of Diaby, Torres and co. I assume there are player bonuses but some of the selling club add ons could mount up to a fair few million quid relating to us qualifying for CL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 18 minutes ago, VillaJ100 said: The really interesting thing is if we can defer the new sponsorship and champions league money to next year's accounts. Then we'd have an absolute shit load to spend, well over 9 figures. Yes, the rules mean you have to count the sponsorship being paid for next year in that years accounts. Not the point when you sign the contract or announce the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czarnikjak Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 28 minutes ago, ender4 said: Yes, the rules mean you have to count the sponsorship being paid for next year in that years accounts. Not the point when you sign the contract or announce the deal. Is that really spelled out in the Premier league rulebook? Or you just assuming that it is as it makes sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 1 hour ago, kidlewis said: Don’t have time to read 224 pages of content unfortunately hence the question for anyone who is more itk It's an average over 3 years. We sold Jack for 100m profit, Chukwuemeka for £20m and 3 players for £40m last summer. They all go into the accounts. Also there are allowable deductions from the losses for women's football, community, investment and youth development. So headline numbers don't tell you much. If you want to go back through the thread you'll see the detail a few of us put into the analysis of our club finances. Like previous seasons we will want to make a profit on players sales this summer around 50m+ to keep some room for us to continue investing in the squad. There are lots of ways to make profit on player trading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 2 hours ago, CVByrne said: It's an average over 3 years. We sold Jack for 100m profit, Chukwuemeka for £20m and 3 players for £40m last summer. They all go into the accounts. Also there are allowable deductions from the losses for women's football, community, investment and youth development. So headline numbers don't tell you much. If you want to go back through the thread you'll see the detail a few of us put into the analysis of our club finances. Like previous seasons we will want to make a profit on players sales this summer around 50m+ to keep some room for us to continue investing in the squad. There are lots of ways to make profit on player trading. So essentially we do need a net £50 out on player transfers even after the deductions have been taken into consideration? or do we need to get £50m in sales plus then deductions taken off give us much more for players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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