Ollie Watkins

[WHY]

1 hour ago, av1 said:

Disagree with this mate. Gabby in his pomp was much better than Watkins imo. 

Played it a much better team in his pomp to be fair. Not necessarily disagreeing but think Ollie himself would’ve been good for 15 goals a season in that team. 

[Zatman]

7 hours ago, DaveAV1 said:

I thought,  when Norwich came up the last time before last season, it’s hard to keep up with them, that he started the season very well but then his form dropped and he just seemed to disappear. We both know we won’t be replacing Ollie Watkins for him though. Cue “shock Pukki signing” headline. 

He has 22 Premier League goals for a team that finished bottom in his two seasons in Premier League

[Zatman]

34 minutes ago, messi11 said:

I think the fact only Mane, Salah, Kane and Son are the ONLY ones to score more PL goals than Ollie Watkins in the last 2 PL seasons suggests a lot are overreaching, and he's not as useless as @Delphinho123suggests. 

and Vardy, Bruno Fernandes, Zaha

[messi11]

22 minutes ago, Zatman said:

and Vardy, Bruno Fernandes, Zaha

 

[Guest av1]

6 hours ago, WHY said:

Played it a much better team in his pomp to be fair. Not necessarily disagreeing but think Ollie himself would’ve been good for 15 goals a season in that team. 

Yeah that’s a fair point. 

[Delphinho123]

5 hours ago, messi11 said:

 

I’ll base my assumptions on watching him rather than a statistic.

You could find any stat that makes McGinn the best player in the league, but doesn’t mean it’s true.

We need to improve on Watkins and until we do, you can forget Europe. 

[Demitri_C]

Yeah and i bet that stat doesnt include how many misses he makes which is absolute ridiculous amount

[lexicon]

42 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

Yeah and i bet that stat doesnt include how many misses he makes which is absolute ridiculous amount

He shot 2.2 times per game last season - which is far from a crazy amount for his goal tally.

Of the 13 players who scored more than him, only 5 were equal to that or shot less. Salah shot 4, Kane 3.6, Cronaldo 3.7, Son 2.5. 

He does not miss an 'absolutely ridiculous' amount of shots.

[nick76]

2 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

I’ll base my assumptions on watching him rather than a statistic.

Can’t even believe this is a discussion.  Anybody who watches him can see he’s regressed season on season and he takes the wrong shots many times, he doesn’t always use his colleagues around him, is very poor at conversion when he has time to think about the shot.  When he doesn’t have time to think he’s good but along with points above and poor first touch, his other traits need to get back to the levels of the first season otherwise he will be a weight on this team.

[lexicon]

19 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Can’t even believe this is a discussion.  Anybody who watches him can see he’s regressed season on season and he takes the wrong shots many times, he doesn’t always use his colleagues around him, is very poor at conversion when he has time to think about the shot.  When he doesn’t have time to think he’s good but along with points above and poor first touch, his other traits need to get back to the levels of the first season otherwise he will be a weight on this team.

Regressed season on season? He's played 2  - that's not how that phrase works. 

He had a worse season than his first, which is probably because there was a lot of change and upheaval in both the club and his personal life (with him becoming a father for the first time). 

He's not a top 6 attacking player but he's a decent enough striker to have made the England team and could definitely net 15 goals this season, which is not bad at all. 

[villa4europe]

Just now, lexicon said:

He's not a top 6 attacking player but he's a decent enough striker to have made the England team and could definitely net 15 goals this season, which is not bad at all. 

That's where I'm at, if he stays fit and plays he will get 15 goals 

You'll have some say that's still not good enough he needs 20+ goals... We haven't had a 20 league goal striker in 40 years

He's had 2 season here and been top scorer each year, if he plays he will be top scorer again, if he gets to 15 goals then he would have been top scorer in all but 3 of our PL seasons - we have a depressing history of top goalscorers - Ollie is not doing bad in comparison to a lot of them, Carew for example had seasons or half seasons of 3,13,11,10 and 0, Ollie needs needs 12 goals this season to score more in 3 years than Carew did in 4 but Carew had a better chant from the holte so he's well thought of whereas Ollie is somehow shit 

[nick76]

15 minutes ago, lexicon said:

Regressed season on season? He's played 2  - that's not how that phrase works.

Last season he regressed from the previous season, how is that not season on season…neither of those words are plural.  It makes no difference you knew what I meant whether it was slightly inaccurate description or not.

15 minutes ago, lexicon said:

He had a worse season than his first, which is probably because there was a lot of change and upheaval in both the club and his personal life (with him becoming a father for the first time). 

Never Ollie’s fault is it, always somebody else’s fault.  As for the becoming a father let’s prepare for when he has a second child and third because his form will probably dip again then. 
 

15 minutes ago, lexicon said:

He's not a top 6 attacking player but he's a decent enough striker to have made the England team and could definitely net 15 goals this season, which is not bad at all

great, he deserved his original call up but hasn’t deserved it this season and was dropped recently.  Plus the lack of strength in the striker department for England currently means he’s likely to be picked despite form.  As for this season, he could also not achieve 15 goals.  We hope he does but he could easily get nowhere near that.

 

It all doesn’t matter, we don’t look like signing another striker and Gerrard seems to favour Ollie over Ings so Ollie will likely start 30 games this season.  We just have to hope all the points/excuses you said about last season are right and this season he smashes it. We all agree on that at least.

Edited August 1, 2022 by nick76

[sparrow1988]

2 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

That's where I'm at, if he stays fit and plays he will get 15 goals 

You'll have some say that's still not good enough he needs 20+ goals... We haven't had a 20 league goal striker in 40 years

He's had 2 season here and been top scorer each year, if he plays he will be top scorer again, if he gets to 15 goals then he would have been top scorer in all but 3 of our PL seasons - we have a depressing history of top goalscorers - Ollie is not doing bad in comparison to a lot of them, Carew for example had seasons or half seasons of 3,13,11,10 and 0, Ollie needs needs 12 goals this season to score more in 3 years than Carew did in 4 but Carew had a better chant from the holte so he's well thought of whereas Ollie is somehow shit 

These 20 goals a season strikers outside of the top 5/6 clubs are a myth in any case . Defoe for example held up as some sort of lethal finisher, and never scored 20 goals a season. In fact, in Ings, we have one of the few strikers outside of the top 6 that has scored more than 20 goals a season in the last 10 years.

[sparrow1988]

2 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Yeah and i bet that stat doesnt include how many misses he makes which is absolute ridiculous amount

It literally does state how many more goals he should have had. It provides his xG tally. He should have had 3 more goals.

EDIT: If you count big chances missed then he's joint 11th in the league (10th for strikers only) with 10 chances. For context, Kane missed 18 and Salah missed 17. Conversely he shouldn't have scored that goal at home to Brighton where he ran the length of the pitch and stuck it in the top corner.

I'm not saying he is perfect. He could definitely be better. However, calling him "useless" (not you) when he clearly has his uses, and using the 'he misses a ridiculous amount of chances' when most strikers miss a bagful of chances makes no sense. I think the problem is that we create so few chances, that when one is missed it's even more frustrating because you know the next one will be a while (sometimes not even in the same game) coming.

Edited August 1, 2022 by sparrow1988

[lexicon]

4 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Last season he regressed from the previous season, how is that not season on season…neither of those words are plural.  It makes no difference you knew what I meant whether it was slightly inaccurate description or not.

Regressing season on season means that he regressed at least twice, so it requires playing 3 seasons. You cannot regress in your first season in a league because you are setting a bar.

 

5 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Never Ollie’s fault is it, always somebody else’s fault.  As for the becoming a father let’s prepare for when he has a second child and third because his form will probably dip again then. 

I have no idea what your life is like, but for us mere mortals, things don't always work out and it's not always 100% our fault. For those of us who don't live a life of constant unbridled success and fortune, we have what are called 'mitigating circumstances', which impact our lives or career in a negative way. Example: A: 'Why didn't he win the marathon?' B: 'He lost both his legs when somebody ran him over on the pavement' A: 'Oh, OK'

5 minutes ago, nick76 said:

great, he deserved his original call up but hasn’t deserved it this season and was dropped recently.  Plus the lack of strength in the striker department for England currently means he’s likely to be picked despite form.  As for this season, he could also not achieve 15 goals.  We hope he does but he could easily get nowhere near that.

Yes, it's called form - it generally goes up and down unless you're an elite player in an elite team. He's neither an elite player, nor in an elite team and those expectations should not be placed on him. In any case, he scored 14 league goals in a worse team two years ago.

5 minutes ago, nick76 said:

It all doesn’t matter, we don’t look like signing another striker and Gerrard seems to favour Ollie over Ings so Ollie will likely start 30 games this season.  We just have to hope all the points/excuses you said about last season are right and this season he smashes it. We all agree on that at least.

I agree. Cheer him on, enjoy it and be realistic about what to expect from a player of his level. 

[Risso]

8 hours ago, messi11 said:

 

Since when did penalties stop being as important as other goals? What a rubbish, highly selective stat.

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, lexicon said:

He shot 2.2 times per game last season - which is far from a crazy amount for his goal tally.

Of the 13 players who scored more than him, only 5 were equal to that or shot less. Salah shot 4, Kane 3.6, Cronaldo 3.7, Son 2.5. 

He does not miss an 'absolutely ridiculous' amount of shots.

I bet the stats dont include the shots where he hits it straight at the defenders ?

He misses alot of chances a ridiculous amount and i wont take aaay that comment

[Demitri_C]

9 minutes ago, sparrow1988 said:

It literally does state how many more goals he should have had. It provides his xG tally. He should have had 3 more goals.

If you count big chances missed then he's joint 11th in the league (10th for strikers only) with 10 chances. For context, Kane missed 18 and Salah missed 17. Conversely he shouldn't have scored that goal at home to Brighton where he ran the length of the pitch and stuck it in the top corner.

3 more goals?? There is no chance on earth that is accurate if tahts the acse any villa fan who watched us can see watkins missed more than 3 "goal opportunities" last season!

 

[lexicon]

1 minute ago, Demitri_C said:

I bet the stats dont include the shots where he hits it straight at the defenders ?

He misses alot of chances a ridiculous amount and i wont take aaay that comment

Of course they count - they're shots. 

[Demitri_C]

Just now, lexicon said:

Of course they count - they're shots. 

The stats must be wrong because sparrows point was watkins should have scored 3 more goals than he did which is wrong we can all see that. He missed more than 3 chances last season.

I hope we see the ollie of 1st season not 2nd as he was crap.