Ratings & Reactions: Villa v Chelsea

[TRO]

22 hours ago, BigJim said:

Pretty similar to Everton's at the moment?

What do you expect given the gulf in class between the sides?

That second line is rubbish......we didn't play like that against Liverpool. We stood our ground.

We simply make it too easy for everyone.......shall we just throw the towel in and crawl back down our hole, because we are outclassed.

Was there a gulf in class against Leicester and Southampton, who dismantled us?

I am not wishing to be rude, but that second line is defeatist.....we have to get a team who can win, before we can attract, players like they have.....its never going to happen thinking like that.

just as an example.....when Andy Gray arrived at 19, his second game against Man U he ripped the arse out of them and arrived like a thunderbolt, he wasn't the most gifted of players, technically, but had the heart of a Lion and made things happen for himself.....you cannot be constantly over shadowed by talent, you have to fight back and make them work for what they get.....we just hand it on a plate.

Edited June 22, 2020 by TRO

[nick76]

49 minutes ago, TRO said:

If I was an owner, watching the last game, where we were completely out pointed ( sorry for the boxing terms) and then getting a knock down, but allowing them to get back up and knock us down twice......I would be having serious conotations or what kind of fighter, i had.

 

But I would also understand I put a lightweight fighter in against an experienced heavy weight fighter

[sidcow]

On 21/06/2020 at 18:35, TreeVillan said:

Maybe we can not turn up to games.

I've demanded the return of my season ticket money. They've agreed as well, that's how embarrassed they are. 

[TRO]

4 minutes ago, nick76 said:

But I would also understand I put a lightweight fighter in against an experienced heavy weight fighter

Defeatist line.....not like you.

Do you mean like Cassius Clay v  Sonny Liston.?

where the rookie kicked the experienced mans arse.

 

Edited June 22, 2020 by TRO

[Robtaylor200]

No shame, that's what is worse for me. Hardly even tackled them. Imagine Sid standing for some one running around him. He would kick him into the air. They kick Jack. We watch them. No heart no shame.  

Edited June 22, 2020 by Robtaylor200

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, Robtaylor200 said:

No shame, that's what is worse for me. Hardly even tackled them. Imagine Sid standing for some one running around him. He would kick him into the air. They kick Jack. We watch them. No heart no shame.  

It really is this in a nutshell.....shameful, is right.

[villalad21]

10 minutes ago, TRO said:

It really is this in a nutshell.....shameful, is right.

Didn't even try to close them down. We let them do what they want and hoping to defend the gazillion amount of crosses.

Watching the City - Burnley game right now, fair enough Foden scored a worldie but Burnley ain't allowing them to cross and forcing them to attack through the middle.

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Didn't even try to close them down. We let them do what they want and hoping to defend the gazillion amount of crosses.

Watching the City - Burnley game right now, fair enough Foden scored a worldie but Burnley ain't allowing them to cross and forcing them to attack through the middle.

Do you think Dean can see it? Or is he just simply in denial.

[villalad21]

13 minutes ago, TRO said:

Do you think Dean can see it? Or is he just simply in denial.

I think he has got no clue how to organize a defense which is why we are better off trying to play an attacking game. A bit mind boggling though considering he got one of the best English defenders of all time next to him!

The evidence is in the pudding. He is turning away from his own footballing philosophy. Same happened with Lambert. He is no longer what we appointed.

Sometimes i wonder if we should have kept Jedinak for another season. Say what you want about him but he can shield a back 4 and is valuable in both boxen in set pieces.

Edited June 22, 2020 by villalad21

[flashingqwerty]

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

I think he has got no clue how to organize a defense which is why we are better off trying to play an attacking game. A bit mind boggling though considering he got one of the best English defenders of all time next to him!

The evidence is in the pudding. He is turning away from his own footballing philosophy. Same happened with Lambert. He is no longer what we appointed.

Sometimes i wonder if we should have kept Jedinak for another season. Say what you want about him but he can shield a back 4 and is valuable in both boxen in set pieces.

This.

The man that sent out a team against Chelsea this week is not the same man that sent a gutsy team out to compete against Spurs first game.

He is a broken man who doesn't have the talent, experience or self belief to make the necessary changes and put it right.

His journey with us this season has highlighted what i thought of him when he was appointed: a limited manager, whose level was mid table in the championship.

Nice bloke, one of our own, etc. But just not good enough and 18 managers in this league have him sussed.

I said it to my dad just before Chelseas equaliser, when plan a fails, lets keep going with plan a.  He is either to proud/stubborn to change, or simply too inept.  In either case, done and should be removed as a matter of urgency.

However, despite their sporting and business pedigree, i doubt the owners have the balls or the stomach to do whats needed.

I look forward to another few years back in the championship, as its clear we dont deserve to be in this division.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, villalad21 said:

I think he has got no clue how to organize a defense which is why we are better off trying to play an attacking game. A bit mind boggling though considering he got one of the best English defenders of all time next to him!

The evidence is in the pudding. He is turning away from his own footballing philosophy. Same happened with Lambert. He is no longer what we appointed.

Sometimes i wonder if we should have kept Jedinak for another season. Say what you want about him but he can shield a back 4 and is valuable in both boxen in set pieces.

CDM

We should have signed one.....we have a reputation for ignoring this position, you can count on one hand how many good ones we have had.

on your first line.....something moody there for me, not ITK, just speculating.

When you have a hole in a boat, you fix it........when you have too many holes, the likelyhood is you sink....I think it is slipping away from him.

 

[villalad21]

8 hours ago, TRO said:

CDM

We should have signed one.....we have a reputation for ignoring this position, you can count on one hand how many good ones we have had.

on your first line.....something moody there for me, not ITK, just speculating.

When you have a hole in a boat, you fix it........when you have too many holes, the likelyhood is you sink....I think it is slipping away from him.

 

We had one.

A man like Allardyce would get a player like Jedinak to great use this season. Such an undervalued player in here.

[useless]

Jedinak hasn't even been able to find another team since leaving us. So not sure if anyone would have got any great use out of him this season.

[villalad21]

3 minutes ago, useless said:

Jedinak hasn't even been able to find another team since leaving us. So not sure if anyone would have got any great use out of him this season.

With the right management and coaching i think he could still get 1 more season.

And considering we're the worst in the league on defensive set pieces how can you say Jedinak couldn't have been valuable for us this season?

[useless]

He only played four times last season as a CDM on every other occassion he was played in central defence. The Jedinak we knew wouldn't have been much use in midfield in the premier league, not mobile enough, and that would have been even more so the case this season.

[BigJim]

On 22/06/2020 at 13:11, TRO said:

That second line is rubbish......we didn't play like that against Liverpool. We stood our ground.

We simply make it too easy for everyone.......shall we just throw the towel in and crawl back down our hole, because we are outclassed.

Was there a gulf in class against Leicester and Southampton, who dismantled us?

I am not wishing to be rude, but that second line is defeatist.....we have to get a team who can win, before we can attract, players like they have.....its never going to happen thinking like that.

just as an example.....when Andy Gray arrived at 19, his second game against Man U he ripped the arse out of them and arrived like a thunderbolt, he wasn't the most gifted of players, technically, but had the heart of a Lion and made things happen for himself.....you cannot be constantly over shadowed by talent, you have to fight back and make them work for what they get.....we just hand it on a plate.

As far as possession is concerned (and that is what I was commenting on), we absolutely did! Look it up if you don't believe me. 

The game against Liverpool felt a lot closer, and the performance was maybe a bit better, but they still had all of the ball and that's what happens when you have two teams of players of such vastly different ability. It happens all the time in the PL and the result is nearly always the same. It's not being defeatist to say there is a gulf in class - it's simply being realistic.  It pissed me off that an Everton fan should presume to say our possession stats were a disgrace right at the time when his team was surrendering all the ball to Liverpool.

I know you perceive a lack of fight and it hurts you.  I also want us to be able to give any team a game and to fight like lions, and I hurt when we lose just as much as the next fan.  We do have fighters in our squad as we have shown like in that game last November. They weren't so much in evidence on Sunday but there are reasons for that and I'm not going to be so hard on them. The team and manager need all the support they can get in next few weeks. It's a pity they seem to have lost the VillaTalk faithful.

I see people on here say we have no chance against Wolves, Liverpool, ManU in the upcoming games. There's defeatism for you. I KNOW we are going to be outclassed again, but I still cling to the hope that we can scrape a point or two out of those games. That's what being a fan has become for me over the course of this season, and often enough in the past (and I've been watching them for as long as you).

 

[TRO]

10 hours ago, BigJim said:

As far as possession is concerned (and that is what I was commenting on), we absolutely did! Look it up if you don't believe me. 

The game against Liverpool felt a lot closer, and the performance was maybe a bit better, but they still had all of the ball and that's what happens when you have two teams of players of such vastly different ability. It happens all the time in the PL and the result is nearly always the same. It's not being defeatist to say there is a gulf in class - it's simply being realistic.  It pissed me off that an Everton fan should presume to say our possession stats were a disgrace right at the time when his team was surrendering all the ball to Liverpool.

I know you perceive a lack of fight and it hurts you.  I also want us to be able to give any team a game and to fight like lions, and I hurt when we lose just as much as the next fan.  We do have fighters in our squad as we have shown like in that game last November. They weren't so much in evidence on Sunday but there are reasons for that and I'm not going to be so hard on them. The team and manager need all the support they can get in next few weeks. It's a pity they seem to have lost the VillaTalk faithful.

I see people on here say we have no chance against Wolves, Liverpool, ManU in the upcoming games. There's defeatism for you. I KNOW we are going to be outclassed again, but I still cling to the hope that we can scrape a point or two out of those games. That's what being a fan has become for me over the course of this season, and often enough in the past (and I've been watching them for as long as you).

 

Jim....Where i agree with you, hope is all we have got left......as for support for the manager, he has had it, but for me has proved he can't get this group to fight their way out....He cannot get them, to give teams a hard time, we are far too benevolent under Dean.

This is a forum where we can divulge our true feelings.....in the ground is where we support him.

If you go by what class a team has, then you could arrange the final league placings at the start of he season, also how many times do we see a lower league team beat a top team by sheer fight and combative spirit.....Sheff Utd are a good example.

Tonight is another important game and I just hope he can continue his indian sign over Bruce.

we deserately need something from this game.

Edited June 24, 2020 by TRO

[TRO]

On 22/06/2020 at 22:54, flashingqwerty said:

This.

The man that sent out a team against Chelsea this week is not the same man that sent a gutsy team out to compete against Spurs first game.

He is a broken man who doesn't have the talent, experience or self belief to make the necessary changes and put it right.

His journey with us this season has highlighted what i thought of him when he was appointed: a limited manager, whose level was mid table in the championship.

Nice bloke, one of our own, etc. But just not good enough and 18 managers in this league have him sussed.

I said it to my dad just before Chelseas equaliser, when plan a fails, lets keep going with plan a.  He is either to proud/stubborn to change, or simply too inept.  In either case, done and should be removed as a matter of urgency.

However, despite their sporting and business pedigree, i doubt the owners have the balls or the stomach to do whats needed.

I look forward to another few years back in the championship, as its clear we dont deserve to be in this division.

Sadly true.

[VillaFaninLondon]

On 22/06/2020 at 22:54, flashingqwerty said:

This.

The man that sent out a team against Chelsea this week is not the same man that sent a gutsy team out to compete against Spurs first game.

He is a broken man who doesn't have the talent, experience or self belief to make the necessary changes and put it right.

His journey with us this season has highlighted what i thought of him when he was appointed: a limited manager, whose level was mid table in the championship.

Nice bloke, one of our own, etc. But just not good enough and 18 managers in this league have him sussed.

I said it to my dad just before Chelseas equaliser, when plan a fails, lets keep going with plan a.  He is either to proud/stubborn to change, or simply too inept.  In either case, done and should be removed as a matter of urgency.

However, despite their sporting and business pedigree, i doubt the owners have the balls or the stomach to do whats needed.

I look forward to another few years back in the championship, as its clear we dont deserve to be in this division.

The problem is, as a club we shouldn't be in the Championship. Say what you want about Doug but he would never have let it get this bad, us yo yoing between the top 2 divisions. 

 

I don't think the owners/current management wanted or perhaps even expected us to be in this predicament but they've just made so many wrong decisions this season and allowed us to be back to square one again. They supposedly want to make Villa Park a 50K+ capacity stadium, good luck with that in the Championship. 

[VillaFaninLondon]

11 hours ago, BigJim said:

As far as possession is concerned (and that is what I was commenting on), we absolutely did! Look it up if you don't believe me. 

The game against Liverpool felt a lot closer, and the performance was maybe a bit better, but they still had all of the ball and that's what happens when you have two teams of players of such vastly different ability. It happens all the time in the PL and the result is nearly always the same. It's not being defeatist to say there is a gulf in class - it's simply being realistic.  It pissed me off that an Everton fan should presume to say our possession stats were a disgrace right at the time when his team was surrendering all the ball to Liverpool.

I know you perceive a lack of fight and it hurts you.  I also want us to be able to give any team a game and to fight like lions, and I hurt when we lose just as much as the next fan.  We do have fighters in our squad as we have shown like in that game last November. They weren't so much in evidence on Sunday but there are reasons for that and I'm not going to be so hard on them. The team and manager need all the support they can get in next few weeks. It's a pity they seem to have lost the VillaTalk faithful.

I see people on here say we have no chance against Wolves, Liverpool, ManU in the upcoming games. There's defeatism for you. I KNOW we are going to be outclassed again, but I still cling to the hope that we can scrape a point or two out of those games. That's what being a fan has become for me over the course of this season, and often enough in the past (and I've been watching them for as long as you).

 

You're right they did. A lot claim the Liverpool game was a good performance, but it was the same as so many others: good first half performance, we matched them, didn't give them many chances. Second half Liverpool completely dominated, we could barely get the ball out of our half, and the inevitable collapse happened. Yes the goals came very late but they were always coming. 

 

Similar pattern in the away games at Spurs, Man City, Arsenal, Chelsea away - we had something in those games at HT, and were well in the game, by the end we had 0, yes 0, points to show for it. 

 

It's a combination of poor fitness (which should have been worked on in preseason), mental fragility (basically bottling it), bad defending, and bad tactics from the manager.