Relegation thread

[Nabby]

1 hour ago, villan-scott said:

For anyone interested SwissRamble has posted an interesting thread on twitter regarding monetary value of each league placing in the Premier League. Reassuring that hopefully Everton and Arsenal will be encouraged to win and gain League placings going into the final day. Thread here - 

 

So Arsenal finishing a place higher is worth 5.4 mil or about 50% of Aubameyang yearly wage ...

Interesting to note how much the new distribution has changed as per the moaning of the top 4 to make the league more like Spain etc where the top clubs suck so much more cash up its harder for the rest to get close.

[The Fun Factory]

10 hours ago, Mark_1989 said:

Delusional - sorry that I set our sights higher than 34points. 

So say we go down because we lose Sunday and Bournemouth win it’ll be seen as a shocking season yet if we stay up due to all 3 of us losing it’s decent.

I find it hard to see how we can gloss it up. Yes I will be delighted due to how the season has gone and our mini turn of form at the end. Just don’t think it’s decent.

Either way. Up the boys for Sunday!!!

Most teams who win the playoffs get relegated in their first season.

We had to build  a new team in a couple of months.

We  also reached  the League Cup final, which established sides like West Ham or Newcastle have not done for years.

If we come 17th, that has fulfilled the remit and is a successful season. Largely not enjoyable and now stressful, but it would be seen as a success.

At the start of the season I predicted a hard year and I would have taken 17th.  That is the equivalent of moving up 8 places in a year. To think we could waltz in and come mid table with  a scratch side after coming 5th in the Championship even after winning 10 games in  a row,  was delusional thinking imo. There is a huge gap in quality between the two divisions which is only going to get wider.

You can't compare to our previous successes. Villa have been a mess for nearly a decade and we are only now starting to turn it around. Hopefully.

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by The Fun Factory

[TRO]

I find it interesting the debate regarding expectation.

If you set the bar to what you have achieved and wallow in self achievement you will never progress.....you have to strive for better.

E.g Liverpool will not sit back on their laurels....despite achieving just about everything, its not in their psyche, to sit on their hands.

being too self satisfied, breeds mediocrity.......we don't have to be depressed with under achievement, it is a great opportunity for betterment.....we should be able to talk about it, its not taboo.

If we stay up, we have a great opportunity to kick on.....lets not, miss it by being self satisfied.

We have to be more mentally tuned in to striving, and success will come....personally, I think significant progress is a form of success....lets go for it.

 

[TRO]

11 hours ago, Mark_1989 said:

Surviving does not mean it will have been a decent season, decent will have been safely mid table 12th and comfortable not having to win 3 of their last 4 to survive. Anyone who tries to suggest this will have been a good season I simply cannot agree.

This way of thinking is why we are struggling. Small time mentality.

The LCF wasn’t even enjoyable with watford winning the night before. I’m not trying to call you out but staying up does not constitute decent season.

Sure the Arsenal result and performance gives us all hope......but you are not wrong.

For me, conceding so many sloppy goals, in huge numbers, deters me from saying decent season.

it seems since lockdown, something has changed, tightening up has made us look more like a team that belongs in this league.....some way to go, but improvement non the less, just hope we can get over the line.

as the saying goes, look after the pennies and the pounds look after themselves.....we have got too many things wrong in games over the season, put them right and the wins will come.

If we pat ourselves on the back for this season, we are shaking hands with mediocrity....we should be relieved and ensure we strive to move away from this dark area, with gusto.......if we get over the line on Sunday, it provides a great opportunity for the club to grasp the opportunity.....to achieve real stability.

[Mister_a]

52 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

We didn't need to either.

It was a choice the board and Smith made.

I know you like to be wrong all the time, but I'll give this troll attempt an 8 out of 10. Possibly a 9.

We didn't need to rebuild the squad lol. You donut.

If we didn't rebuild, we were gonna start the season with about 8 players....

Edited July 24, 2020 by Mister_a

[villalad21]

10 minutes ago, Mister_a said:

I know you like to be wrong all the time, but I'll give this troll attempt an 8 out of 10. Possibly a 9.

We didn't need to rebuild the squad lol. You donut.

If we didn't rebuild, we were gonna start the season with about 8 players....

Not what i meant.

Yes we needed a rebuild but we didn't need to do everything in one transfer window.

Should have been done more gradually. 4 players out. 4 players in. Rinse and repeat next window.

13 new players in one window is just way too many players to deal with.

Edited July 24, 2020 by villalad21

[Mister_a]

3 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Not what i meant.

Yes we needed a rebuild but we didn't need to do everything in one transfer window.

Should have been done more gradually. 4 players out. 4 players in. Rinse and repeat next window.

13 new players in one window is just way too many players to deal with.

We wouldn't have had a squad, it wasn't a luxury to buy that many players, it was a necessity.

[villalad21]

Just now, Mister_a said:

We wouldn't have had a squad, it wasn't a luxury to buy that many players, it was a necessity.

We would if we had kept all our players and not releasing them.

[tomav84]

4 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Not what i meant.

Yes we needed a rebuild but we didn't need to do everything in one transfer window.

Should have been done more gradually. 4 players out. 4 players in. Rinse and repeat next window.

13 new players in one window is just way too many players to deal with.

2 of those 4 left by default, axel and tammy as they were loans we couldn't keep.

so who would your other 2 to leave have been out of interest? curious to know who would've been still on our books had you been in charge. **** it, i'll even let you pick 4 as it probably went without saying that the 2 aforementioned loans were going back.

to make it easy for you, here is the full list of players who left in the summer for you to choose from (not including loans). this should be interesting.

tshbola

whelan

de laet

elphick

adomah

gardner

jedi

mccormack

richards

hutton

thor

bunn

[Mister_a]

Don't feed. Realised i got got.

[villalad21]

Just now, tomav84 said:

2 of those 4 left by default, axel and tammy as they were loans we couldn't keep.

so who would your other 2 to leave have been out of interest? curious to know who would've been still on our books had you been in charge. **** it, i'll even let you pick 4 as it probably went without saying that the 2 aforementioned loans were going back.

to make it easy for you, here is the full list of players who left in the summer for you to choose from (not including loans). this should be interesting.

tshbola

whelan

de laet

elphick

adomah

gardner

jedi

mccormack

richards

hutton

thor

bunn

Ok sure.

Whelan and Jedi. Pretty easy pick for me. Premier League experience and i'm far from convinced Nakamba is any better. Thor as well is fine as backup. Is he really any worse than Lansbury? Nah. Out of all of them i'd get rid of Lansbury and bring in Luiz.

Elphick and Adomah is fine as back up players.

Hutton we wouldn't need because we already had Guilbert and Elmo.

Scott Hogan looked fine in Pre Season. Again would be perfectly fine as back up.

Keeping all these players would mean we could go for our main targets such as Maupay, Benrahma etc instead of rushing signing a bunch of mercenaries to make up a squad.

[Lichfield Dean]

3 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Really? It means the majority of the time it doesn't happen. 

Also when you see that in prem history, the team promoted through the playoffs have been relegated the following year 17 times, it certainly to me, shows these ideas that finishing 17th isn't a success look pretty silly to me. 

You would expect a team that finished third or lower in the championship to stay in the Premier League more often than that? I certainly wouldn't. I would expect them to come back down almost every single time. Ten survivals is surprisingly high to me.

I totally agree that finishing 17th is a big achievement by the way.

[OxfordVillan]

25 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Not what i meant.

Yes we needed a rebuild but we didn't need to do everything in one transfer window.

Should have been done more gradually. 4 players out. 4 players in. Rinse and repeat next window.

13 new players in one window is just way too many players to deal with.

Name the Villa team that won the Playoff final in 2019, including the subs. Then list who was left from that team once loans returned and 34+yr old players out of contract were released. Off the top of my head I can give you Tuanzebe, Hutton, Jedinak, Whelan, Adomah, Abraham. That’s six outfield 1st team players from last season. 
You generally spout absolute drivel, but you’ve exceeded even your own very low standard on this occasion. It’s probably not even worth pointing out that two of our summer signings were players that were already here on loan. 

[tomav84]

20 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Ok sure.

Whelan and Jedi. Pretty easy pick for me. Premier League experience and i'm far from convinced Nakamba is any better. Thor as well is fine as backup. Is he really any worse than Lansbury? Nah. Out of all of them i'd get rid of Lansbury and bring in Luiz.

Elphick and Adomah is fine as back up players.

Hutton we wouldn't need because we already had Guilbert and Elmo.

Scott Hogan looked fine in Pre Season. Again would be perfectly fine as back up.

Keeping all these players would mean we could go for our main targets such as Maupay, Benrahma etc instead of rushing signing a bunch of mercenaries to make up a squad.

you said 4 leave and 4 arrivals. i asked which 4 from the list you would have gotten rid of, leaving the rest still in the squad. from your list of players to keep, the ones to leave from my list are tshbola, de laet, gardner, mccormack, richards, bunn. that's 6 players. edit: you mentioned hutton and lansbury to leave too, so that's 8.

i'm going to gloss over your comment about hogan being fine as a back up...

Edited July 24, 2020 by tomav84

[OxfordVillan]

19 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Ok sure.

Whelan and Jedi. Pretty easy pick for me. Premier League experience and i'm far from convinced Nakamba is any better. Thor as well is fine as backup. Is he really any worse than Lansbury? Nah. Out of all of them i'd get rid of Lansbury and bring in Luiz.

Elphick and Adomah is fine as back up players.

Hutton we wouldn't need because we already had Guilbert and Elmo.

Scott Hogan looked fine in Pre Season. Again would be perfectly fine as back up.

Keeping all these players would mean we could go for our main targets such as Maupay, Benrahma etc instead of rushing signing a bunch of mercenaries to make up a squad.

Hahahahaha. A quick reminder that Glenn Whelan has been plying his trade at Fleetwood. FLEETWOOD. Jedinak retired. Please stop making yourself look a complete bellend! 

[villalad21]

38 minutes ago, OxfordVillan said:

Name the Villa team that won the Playoff final in 2019, including the subs. Then list who was left from that team once loans returned and 34+yr old players out of contract were released. Off the top of my head I can give you Tuanzebe, Hutton, Jedinak, Whelan, Adomah, Abraham. That’s six outfield 1st team players from last season. 
You generally spout absolute drivel, but you’ve exceeded even your own very low standard on this occasion. It’s probably not even worth pointing out that two of our summer signings were players that were already here on loan. 

Heaton is a good and necessary signing.

We were never short in defence if we had kept all the players. Elphick, Chester, Konsa, Mings, Hause. That's absolutely fine. No reason for the Engels signing. None at all. Absolutely wasted money.

Release Hutton and we still are left with Elmo and Guilbert. Right back options perfectly fine.

 Obviously we needed a new left back to compete with Taylor. Targett.

Winger situation. We obviously needed cover for Adomah and El Ghazi, but considering Jack has primarily played as a winger this season we really only needed 1 more winger. Benrahma. No need for the Trez signing. Can save the money. With this alternate team we would never be in the bottom 3 in the first place.

Centre midfield. Again we would absolutely stacked. As i've said sell Lansbury or Thor and bring in Luiz. Hourihane, Luiz and McGinn is a very solid midfield. Again. Nakamba absolutely waste. No need at all.

Striking options. Kodjia, Davis, Maupay. Would be very decent. Wesley and Samatta absolutely wasted money

So let take a look at the starting eleven then:

----------------Heaton--------------------

Elmo---Konsa--Mings-----Targett (You can prefer Guilbert and that's fine. To me Elmo is a better crosser and has very valuable Prem experience)

-------------------Luiz------------------------

-----------McGinn--Hourihane---------

Benrahma---Maupay--------Grealish

Bench:Steer, Hause, Guilbert, Whelan, El Ghazi, Adomah, Davis

This isn't an awful lot of signings is it?

This is a very strong starting eleven. We would have no problems whatsoever in staying up.

Edited July 24, 2020 by villalad21

[Mister_a]

Like I said, it's a good troll attempt, an 8.5 out of 10 at least, it's got people biting all over. 

Wherever the ideas come from, it's a long bus ride from reality if you take them as serious.

[Mister_a]

I'm not sure why we didn't just buy Brentford FC looking at all this drivel.

[Rob182]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I find it interesting the debate regarding expectation.

If you set the bar to what you have achieved and wallow in self achievement you will never progress.....you have to strive for better.

E.g Liverpool will not sit back on their laurels....despite achieving just about everything, its not in their psyche, to sit on their hands.

being too self satisfied, breeds mediocrity.......we don't have to be depressed with under achievement, it is a great opportunity for betterment.....we should be able to talk about it, its not taboo.

If we stay up, we have a great opportunity to kick on.....lets not, miss it by being self satisfied.

We have to be more mentally tuned in to striving, and success will come....personally, I think significant progress is a form of success....lets go for it.

 

I feel like everyone that considers 17th a success is not going to be satisfied with a 17th finish next season, if that what the whole ‘standing still’ thing is about. 
 

Liverpool, like most clubs, are never satisfied with standing still. A 17th placed finish is better than 5/6th (I can’t remember) last season in the Championship.

The flip side is that sometimes fans need to see positives or extenuating circumstances too. Klopp’s first couple of seasons didn’t bring much success, but they saw what he was building, and look at them now.

I’d hope some fans can see potential in Smith and even our recruitment team/ strategy too. That’s not to say you stick with it blindly, but that when you take everything into account (injuries, squad rebuild, only £100m after signing up 3/5 loan players, poor VAR/Ref decisions against us that outweighed the decisions for us), we would have snapped up a 17th finish and a cup final.

[Vancvillan]

46 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Scott Hogan looked fine in Pre Season. Again would be perfectly fine as back up.