The Hung Like a Donkey General Election December 2019 Thread

[blandy]

8 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

I'm slightly confused this is even being debated as whether its a big deal

I don't think anyone has claimed the pension changes weren't a big deal, or that it's not ideal, or that it couldn't have been done better, are they? At least from my perspective I've sorted of tried to understand from people who seem to know more about it and the background, why the women affected are said to have been treated "unfairly" and I've asked whether equalising the pension age is a good thing (the law seems to think so) and how it could be done without some people being affected. No-one's answered that.

In your post above, the letter writing 12 months before is inadequate, terribly so. And women not being allowed into company schemes was also shocking.

Given this change was legislated for in 1995, it's hardly a rapid introduction, and even with the 2011 speeding up, it's still not an abrupt change. Of the many things to sympathise with people about, this one comes somewhere down the list. It would have been better to equalise the age for everyone to 60, and no-one loses out, but if that wasn't affordable, then I don't see the validity in "compensating" all the women for 5 years worth of state pension that they want, but have no entitlement to, men have no entitlement to. Like I said. -help those who actually need it regardless of gender or age. 

[desensitized43]

6 hours ago, colhint said:

Perhaps because, with the exception of Blair,  in the last three quarters of a century, every Labour government has been kicked out of power after one term because the economy was screwed. And even he changed the name to new Labour.

I really think you misunderstood @Wainy316 question. 

[Awol]

7 hours ago, Wainy316 said:

So is anyone able to state why we SHOULD vote Tory rather than why we shouldn’t vote Labour?

No, unless you want to leave the EU I don’t think there’s a positive case to be made for the Conservative Party & particularly for Boris Johnson himself. For the reasons discussed he’s just a less bad option than Corbyn’s institutional racism, that’s the only reason. 

The wife and I (Leavers) have decided to vote Lib Dem (Revokers) to try & defeat the SNP in our constituency. It’s a negative vote but better Remainer unionists than Remainer nationalists. It comes down to the lesser of two evils. 

The UK desperately needs proportional representation. 

[Genie]

I'm really, really struggling with convincing myself any of them deserve my vote. They are all atrocious options.

[welnik]

8 hours ago, peterms said:

I'd like to think this is a parody, but sadly I suspect isn't.

Parts  are straight out of the Daily Mail c1975, preserved for posterity for no sound reason.

Parts are just wrong, eg attributing the 1974 3 day week to the 1975 government.   Doh!

This would have failed an O level even in 1976.  Do better.  If you can.

I'll concede the Heath thing. To be honest I'd completely forgotten about the gutless spineless idiot who was too concerned with his yacht and his other proclivities, and was too scared of the unions to do something about them. Everything else is right though. 

[Chindie]

Chief Rabbi might have shot his load too early.

[Chindie]

I'm also not sure that the anti-Semitism smears actually cut through to the general public that much. I seem to recall seeing a poll of people's recognition of 'major stories' a while back and it was basically at the bottom.

[HanoiVillan]

I assume it's 'baked in' to poll numbers, ie that it may well have had an effect, but given it's been a constant attack for the last three years it's unlikely to be persuading large numbers of voters at this point. The bigger effect on polls is probably that every day Labour spend on the defensive is another day Johnson escapes any scrutiny. 

[snowychap]

24 minutes ago, welnik said:

I'll concede the Heath thing.

That's very generous of you.

24 minutes ago, welnik said:

Everything else is right though.

Sure it is.

[Awol]

21 minutes ago, Chindie said:

I'm also not sure that the anti-Semitism smears actually cut through to the general public that much. I seem to recall seeing a poll of people's recognition of 'major stories' a while back and it was basically at the bottom.

“Smears” means they’re not true. Mainstream Labour MPs on TV this morning expressing regret that the party didn’t get on top of it more quickly torpedoes that defence.

As for not “cutting through”, isn’t that another way of saying “don’t worry, we’re getting away with it”? 

[StefanAVFC]

Labour have a problem with Antisemitism, clearly. But all parties aren't held to the same standard.

And even if they were, e.g the Chief Imam slams the Tories for their rampant Islamaphobia. What will their base say? And the general public?

"GOOD" probably.

 

[PompeyVillan]

45 minutes ago, Chindie said:

I'm also not sure that the anti-Semitism smears actually cut through to the general public that much. I seem to recall seeing a poll of people's recognition of 'major stories' a while back and it was basically at the bottom.

This is where the Conservatives strategy of flinging the most absurd accusations at Corbyn day after day backfires. It just becomes noise to most people. 

The latest polls are showing a swing towards Labour. 

[lapal_fan]

12 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

This is where the Conservatives strategy of flinging the most absurd accusations at Corbyn day after day backfires. It just becomes noise to most people. 

The latest polls are showing a swing towards Labour. 

That's the thing with Corbyn, he's actually quite good at campaigning.  Boris, apart from London Mayor elections (what's the general consensus there?  success of failure?) he just talks about Brexit, which we already know about and how shit Labour would be.. Saying that, with the help of Farage and Gove (I hate that man), they did ok in the Brexit campaign! 

I always think if politicians actually told us what they wanted to do, what they realistically expect to do (in 4 years), then it would be far more beneficial than just slandering the other sides.. 

And if they get caught out with baking numbers (like the police numbers and the nurse numbers), then just admit you're being fraudulent.  That woman on Pier's Morgan's show (seen through social media, not TV) was **** tragic and embarrassing. 

Edited November 26, 2019 by lapal_fan

[peterms]

1 hour ago, Chindie said:

Chief Rabbi might have shot his load too early.

He shot his load some time ago, defending mass murder and war crimes.

As usual, it's about Corbyn's defence of Palestinians, and the way the supporters of the Israeli regime seek to demonise him.

 

[bickster]

2 hours ago, welnik said:

I'll concede the Heath thing. To be honest I'd completely forgotten about the gutless spineless idiot who was too concerned with his yacht and his other proclivities, and was too scared of the unions to do something about them. Everything else is right though. 

Do you think Mike Yarwood was real?

[Awol]

1 hour ago, peterms said:

He shot his load some time ago, defending mass murder and war crimes.

As usual, it's about Corbyn's defence of Palestinians, and the way the supporters of the Israeli regime seek to demonise him.

I think this gets to the heart of things, if unintentionally.

British people who happen to be Jewish are being conflated with Jewish extremists in Israel by an element within Labour. It's not dissimilar to British people who happen to be Muslim being conflated with Bin Laden and Al Qaeda. Those guilty of the latter are rightly called bigots, whereas those guilty of doing the same to British Jews  identify themselves as 'Progressives.'  

They might need to reflect on that.

[lapal_fan]

11 minutes ago, Awol said:

I think this gets to the heart of things, if unintentionally.

British people who happen to be Jewish are being conflated with Jewish extremists in Israel by an element within Labour. It's not dissimilar to British people who happen to be Muslim being conflated with Bin Laden and Al Qaeda. Those guilty of the latter are rightly called bigots, whereas those guilty of doing the same to British Jews  identify themselves as 'Progressives.'  

They might need to reflect on that.

So if you support a Palestinian state (or at least, giving them more land), you're an anti-semite? 

What would you be if you were in favor of just getting rid of Palestine all together? 

[Awol]

6 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

So if you support a Palestinian state (or at least, giving them more land), you're an anti-semite? 

No, if you attack British Jews (verbally of otherwise) on the basis of their faith, you're an anti-Semite. 

[peterms]

20 minutes ago, Awol said:

British people who happen to be Jewish are being conflated with Jewish extremists in Israel by an element within Labour.

What is happening is rather that criticism of Israel is being conflated with antisemitism, in an attempt to silence critics of Israel's actions.  It's a planned strategy which has been implemented over the last few years.

[lapal_fan]

4 minutes ago, Awol said:

No, if you attack British Jews (verbally of otherwise) on the basis of their faith, you're an anti-Semite. 

So, just like any other type of racism then?  Ok I'm set.

So what did Corbyn et al say about Jews then?