Douglas Luiz

[HalfTimePost]

Just now, PaulC said:

He needs to keep performing at the level he did in the second half against City then we can talk about a new deal. 

He has 18 months left, he either needs to sign a new deal or be sold.

[PaulC]

Just now, HalfTimePost said:

He has 18 months left, he either needs to sign a new deal or be sold.

18 months is a long time. I want to see him show that level of performance on a consistent basis. He had a poor season least year.

[TRO]

On 26/11/2021 at 14:00, osmark86 said:

I'm fairly certain that Dougie feels the exact same way too. I mean he now gets to work with one of the finest midfielders that played. That's one helluva opportunity for him.

I think SG will play him in his rightful position....when he signs a DM in the Rodri/Fernandino mould.

[TRO]

Luiz is like McGinn in as much as soon as you move either of them forward, their form appears, in bounds.

They are not defensive minded enough to play so deep as we have had to play them.

The squad, is so imbalanced that we are left with only Nakamba, with any natural sense of defensive characteristic.

We should have signed a DM in the summer, it was a mistake not to, and I think it was instrumental in costing Dean his job....not entirely, but partly.

You only have to see the job Rodri( dirty so&so) and Fernandino do, to see what we have missing....albeit Marv did play well.

Edited December 3, 2021 by TRO

[PaulC]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Luiz is like McGinn in as much as soon as you move either of them forward, their form appears, in bounds.

They are not defensive minded enough to play so deep as we have had to play them.

The squad, is so imbalanced that we are left with only Nakamba, with any natural sense of defensive characteristic.

We should have signed a DM in the summer, it was a mistake not to, and I think it was instrumental in costing Dean his job....not entirely, but partly.

You only have to see the job Rodri( dirty so&so) and Fernandino do, to see what we have missing....albeit Marv did play well.

Yes 100% agree which is why I think Nakamba starts every game until we sign someone better . No easy games in the Premier League. 

[Rightdm00]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Luiz is like McGinn in as much as soon as you move either of them forward, their form appears, in bounds.

They are not defensive minded enough to play so deep as we have had to play them.

The squad, is so imbalanced that we are left with only Nakamba, with any natural sense of defensive characteristic.

We should have signed a DM in the summer, it was a mistake not to, and I think it was instrumental in costing Dean his job....not entirely, but partly.

You only have to see the job Rodri( dirty so&so) and Fernandino do, to see what we have missing....albeit Marv did play well.

Luiz was our best performer as a 6 for project restart and also was near the top for the first half of next season. 

He is a multi tooled midfielder who as he matures will be capable of covering all positions in the middle. Versatility is a positive, he has the skills to be both a 6 & an 8 given the opponent and formation the manager puts out. 

[TRO]

1 minute ago, Rightdm00 said:

Luiz was our best performer as a 6 for project restart and also was near the top for the first half of next season. 

He is a multi tooled midfielder who as he matures will be capable of covering all positions in the middle. Versatility is a positive, he has the skills to be both a 6 & an 8 given the opponent and formation the manager puts out. 

Well, we will see then.

I think you will find, there is a growing voice to say, he is better further forward....We have played him as a 6, due to a lack of options.

I do agree he has a silky style about him....but when you look at the stature of Rodri/ Fernandino and the power he brings to the middle, you can surely see, what is being suggested.

I just happen to think he is better suited to 8 than 6....sorry.

[HalfTimePost]

2 hours ago, PaulC said:

18 months is a long time. I want to see him show that level of performance on a consistent basis. He had a poor season least year.

18 months is not a long time when the model the club wants to move to is to move forward together or buy, improve and sell players for a profit to reinvest.

If he doesn't sign a new deal by the end of the season we'll be selling him. I very doubt it'll be the case but if Gerrard needed to open a position or extra funds up and make a sale in January I'd imagine AEG and then Dougie would be top of his list.*

I'd like to see him sign a new deal.

* Likes of Nakamba, Trez will be at AFCON and I'm talking current squad rather than those on loan that I'm sure we'll move on in the summer like Wes and Lovre 

[Delphinho123]

Like others have said, we'll need to sell him in the Summer if we can't get him to agree a new deal. 

It would be a big loss for us if he left now. He's not a world beater, but he's a good player who gets into our best XI without question, either as a 6 or an 8. We've also sunk 2.5 years into developing him into the player he is now. To let him go as he's reaching his peak years for what would be a reduced transfer fee (being in the last 12 months) would be a bad blow. 

I'm also still a little undecided on the clubs recruitment ability. Would we able to replace him with similar quality for the money we get? I'm not so sure. 

[TRO]

On 02/12/2021 at 08:36, Vive_La_Villa said:

@TRO look who got VT motm at last

He's a good player when he's like that, he has plenty of talent, but look at where he was playing.

However, One swallow doesn't make a summer.

I am not even arguing with those who say he is good.....but I say again, No6 not for me.

I look over yonder at Rodri or Fernandinho, now thats my idea of a DM.

I am not a fan of Dougie at No6....No, sorry......I am not a fan of McGinn either playing deep....but I accept at times, needs must.

[PaulC]

1 hour ago, Delphinho123 said:

Like others have said, we'll need to sell him in the Summer if we can't get him to agree a new deal. 

It would be a big loss for us if he left now. He's not a world beater, but he's a good player who gets into our best XI without question, either as a 6 or an 8. We've also sunk 2.5 years into developing him into the player he is now. To let him go as he's reaching his peak years for what would be a reduced transfer fee (being in the last 12 months) would be a bad blow. 

I'm also still a little undecided on the clubs recruitment ability. Would we able to replace him with similar quality for the money we get? I'm not so sure. 

He's a lovely footballer of that i agree but I'm with Tro hes not a no.6 hes more of a number 8 but as a no.8 he will be expected to contribute his fair share of assists and goals just as McGinn is doing. 

[sne]

All depends on what you expect the #6 to do and what role he's having, and what roles the players in front of him has.

Pirlo played as a #6 for Juve and Italy but he had Vidal, Pogba, Marchisio, Khedira and so on in front of him who all was expected to win the ball higher up and to press. Pirlo was expected tocollect the ball from defense and to distribute the ball. A bit like Smith wanted Luiz to do for us.

No comparison between Pirlo and the other Juve players and Luiz and our lot of course but not all #6 are 6ft 4 brutes who's only expected to win the ball in the air and break bones on opponents.

[TRO]

6 hours ago, sne said:

All depends on what you expect the #6 to do and what role he's having, and what roles the players in front of him has.

Pirlo played as a #6 for Juve and Italy but he had Vidal, Pogba, Marchisio, Khedira and so on in front of him who all was expected to win the ball higher up and to press. Pirlo was expected tocollect the ball from defense and to distribute the ball. A bit like Smith wanted Luiz to do for us.

No comparison between Pirlo and the other Juve players and Luiz and our lot of course but not all #6 are 6ft 4 brutes who's only expected to win the ball in the air and break bones on opponents.

So thats what you think Rodri is......just a 6'3 brute and nothing else?.....so thats what Declan Rice is, no skill just brute force.

No not all 6's are, units, but many are too.

and Pirlo wasn't a DM as we understand them to be, he was described as a deep lying playmaker, he started out as an attacking midfielder.....If you play such a soul, as a DLPM...someone has to be able to win the ball back or stop the oppositions raids.

but I will finally say, when we pick players like Pirlo or Conte....we are referencing the best midfielders around, so naturally they have attributes in excess of most average players, so they can play anywhere, without labels.

[tinker]

I just don't see what he offers , he's poor as a DM and don't create as a am. He ain't bad at anything but ain't that good at anything either. He won't sign another contract either , time to bench him and force his hand.

[Kiwivillan]

4 hours ago, tinker said:

I just don't see what he offers , he's poor as a DM and don't create as a am. He ain't bad at anything but ain't that good at anything either. 

Possibly the most ridiculous take I've ever read on VT

[sne]

4 hours ago, TRO said:

So thats what you think Rodri is......just a 6'3 brute and nothing else?.....so thats what Declan Rice is, no skill just brute force.

No not all 6's are, units, but many are too.

and Pirlo wasn't a DM as we understand them to be, he was described as a deep lying playmaker, he started out as an attacking midfielder.....If you play such a soul, as a DLPM...someone has to be able to win the ball back or stop the oppositions raids.

but I will finally say, when we pick players like Pirlo or Conte....we are referencing the best midfielders around, so naturally they have attributes in excess of most average players, so they can play anywhere, without labels.

He was played as a #6, just like i wrote. Did not say he was a DM, you made that up. Just pointed out that the deep laying midfielder doesn't have to be the defensive one. But obviously they need to handle that part as well.

And the second part bolded is exactly what I've been trying to get across for 2 years now. The players ahead of Luiz needs to do a better job defensively for it to work.

[villalad21]

4 hours ago, sne said:

He was played as a #6, just like i wrote. Did not say he was a DM, you made that up. Just pointed out that the deep laying midfielder doesn't have to be the defensive one. But obviously they need to handle that part as well.

And the second part bolded is exactly what I've been trying to get across for 2 years now. The players ahead of Luiz needs to do a better job defensively for it to work.

Did you not see how exceptional he was as an 8 against City?

The way he linked up with Buendia and created havoc for them in the final third?

We see way more of his ability kit further up the field. The player he admired growing up was Ronaldinho I read. 

Yes he can do a job as a 6 but Nakamba is jus way more suited to play there under Gerrard.

This is just my opinion of course.

[sne]

37 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Did you not see how exceptional he was as an 8 against City?

The way he linked up with Buendia and created havoc for them in the final third?

We see way more of his ability kit further up the field. The player he admired growing up was Ronaldinho I read. 

Yes he can do a job as a 6 but Nakamba is jus way more suited to play there under Gerrard.

This is just my opinion of course.

Was working so didn't watch the game but delighted he did well. I have no real problem with Luiz playing as a #8 Edit: As long as we have a good option behind him, never had. Equally I have no issue with him playing in the #6 role if we have the players in front of him capable of winning the ball and putting pressure on the opponents. As a pure DCM anchor man player Luiz is far from the ideal option, he has other qualities which make him suited to the DLP role.

We've been round this discussion about 10.000 times but I don't think Smith expected him to be the anchor man but rather the DLP and the main failing was that the midfielders in front of Luiz did not do a good enough job at keeping the ball or winning it back early, hence the big holes in midfield and us being put under so much pressure. If you expect Luiz to be a Mile Jedinak type DCM then of course you are going to look at it and think he is useless. Luiz also had a serious drop off in form for whatever reasons. 

New dawn now with Gerrard and if Nakamba can keep this for until he buggers off to the AFCON in January I have no problem with him starting and Luiz players further up.

Edited December 4, 2021 by sne

[JPJCB]

I’m still not convinced by him at all in an 8 role- he didn’t impress me that much the other day but I’ll concede I’m in a minority there. More broadly he had the best part of a full season as an 8 in his first year and was average with the game passing him by. He was converted to a 6 in restart and showed by far his best consistent form for us.

He reminds me of petrov in that he doesn’t have enough pace/energy to play box to box. His strengths are reading the game and passing ability so he’s best operating deeper for me

[Zatman]

21 hours ago, PaulC said:

18 months is a long time. I want to see him show that level of performance on a consistent basis. He had a poor season least year.

No he didnt, he was very good until the Covid break and has been rumoured he got bad covid. Even then his form wasn't that bad 

This year he rushed back from holiday to play and has been one of our better players all season. He wasnt on the pitch for our 2 worst performances this season

Edited December 4, 2021 by Zatman