Tyrone Mings

[samjp26]

2 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

4 in 3 seasons, yet apparently he made 3 just last night.

This stat doesn't support what you're saying in the slightest.

Please direct me to where I said he made 3 mistakes last night. Cheers

[StefanAVFC]

3 minutes ago, samjp26 said:

Please direct me to where I said he made 3 mistakes last night. Cheers

Not aimed at you strictly, at you but at least 5 posts have said that here. Your stat of 4 mistakes in 3 years proves the agenda, doesn't disprove it as you wanted 

Edited February 10, 2022 by StefanAVFC

[samjp26]

Just now, StefanAVFC said:

Not aimed at you strictly, at you but at least 5 posts have said that here. Your stat of 4 mistakes in 3 years proves the agenda, doesn't disprove it as you wanted 

There is no agenda, you’re odd mate. I even said for all his solid defending he always seems to make a mistake, and what annoys me is the way he tries to be a superhero after. I have always backed Mings, he is our captain, but I’m sick of anytime somebody has a criticism of him they are told they “have an agenda.” Grow up please I beg.

[Bazmonkey]

I could post this in most chats but mings is the victim of poor defensive positioning.

He is not the only one...there are others...but we seem to have two centre halves that don't want to defend.

Hear me out...yes they will get blocks in...maybe a pass interception but positional both of them just sit back and let the full backs do the work...how many times did we see target making a last ditch tackle non the penalty spot with mings and konsa sitting on the 6 yard line....pretty much every game.

The defensive situation is our weakness..this is a prime example...two players going to same attacker....two CB's one ball watching and the other two late to the party

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Bazmonkey
Update

[StefanAVFC]

2 minutes ago, Bazmonkey said:

I could post this in most chats but mings is the victim of poor defensive positioning.

He is not the only one...there are others...but we seem to have two centre halves that don't want to defend.

Hear me out...yes they will get blocks in...maybe a pass interception but positional both of them just sit back and let the full backs do the work...how many times did we see target making a last ditch tackle non the penalty spot with mings and konsa sitting on the 6 yard line....pretty much every game.

The defensive situation is our weakness..this is a prime example...two players going to same attacker....two CB's one ball watching and the other two late to the party

 

His position is perfect here. What should he be doing differently in this picture?

[StefanAVFC]

8 minutes ago, samjp26 said:

There is no agenda, you’re odd mate. I even said for all his solid defending he always seems to make a mistake, and what annoys me is the way he tries to be a superhero after. I have always backed Mings, he is our captain, but I’m sick of anytime somebody has a criticism of him they are told they “have an agenda.” Grow up please I beg.

Haha. Ok.

You posted the stat and said Agenda ironically. Perhaps follow your own advice and grow up yourself?

MANY people called you out for it, because your stat showed 4 mistakes in 3 seasons, despite many in this thread stating factually that all 3 goals were his mistakes yesterday.

Nobody defends him if people criticise for legitimate mistakes. Against Lukaku for example in the Chelsea home game. 

People defend him when he is blamed for every goal we concede.

I hope that helps x

 

Edited February 10, 2022 by StefanAVFC

[Bazmonkey]

2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

His position is perfect here. What should he be doing differently in this picture?

My bad....it  didn't show the picture I'm on about.

Here he is no man's land...just backing off...this allowed the forward inside for the shot

 

 

 

[StefanAVFC]

Just now, Bazmonkey said:

My bad....it  didn't show the picture I'm on about.

Here he is no man's land...just backing off...this allowed the forward inside for the shot

 

 

 

That's a bit more fair enough, saying that though, I don't want my CBs charging out aimlessly at attackers if they're already being tracked. I'd need to see the stats for Mings' blocks but I have the impression he's miles ahead of anyone in the team since we've been back in the PL. He definitely doesn't hide, and he takes responsibility compared to the other defenders.

[blandy]

3 minutes ago, Bazmonkey said:

Here he is no man's land...just backing off...this allowed the forward inside for the shot

If he goes out to the guy with the ball, the central Leeds player has the chance of a run behind and could have a pass slotted through from the one with the ball. As it is, the guy shoots from outside the box (and missed  - hit the top of the bar). It's not just about what did happen, it's about what are the options for all of the players there and where does the best chance of scoring (for the forwards) or stopping a goal (for the defenders) lie. Mings comes out closer towards the one with the ball, and the Leeds player(s) can beat the offside and be in for a better chance. He has to anticipate and weight that up.

I'm not saying he got it right, or wrong, just that it's not clear cut at all, (IMO).

[TRO]

20 hours ago, rodders0223 said:

We need better if we're ever going to progress to a European side. Can buy Coutinho and the likes we won't get there with Mings. End of.

I would like to see him and Konsa, with better cover, in front of them....and then appraise, them.

Edited February 10, 2022 by TRO

[TRO]

3 hours ago, romavillan said:

Did it very well too, lots of people need to calm down. Against Leeds we didn't cope well, as we haven't done in the past, with the number of players they commit to an attack. They will bother far better teams than us this season with that tactic, yesterday they got a couple of jammy deflections but they deserved at least a point. As for us and Mings, the criticism is way over the top, the team as a whole did not cope well with Leeds. Midfielders just let a third man runner have a free run at a stretched back line way, way too often. Luiz and McGinn left the back line exposed and outnumbered and that just invited pressure and pressure causes the errors. 

Mings is a good CB, he has lots of great qualities. The pairing of Konsa and Mings is more than good enough for where we are and as has been mentioned above we will not be signing better until we are at least knocking on the door of European qualification every season.

 

[TRO]

3 hours ago, romavillan said:

Did it very well too, lots of people need to calm down. Against Leeds we didn't cope well, as we haven't done in the past, with the number of players they commit to an attack. They will bother far better teams than us this season with that tactic, yesterday they got a couple of jammy deflections but they deserved at least a point. As for us and Mings, the criticism is way over the top, the team as a whole did not cope well with Leeds. Midfielders just let a third man runner have a free run at a stretched back line way, way too often. Luiz and McGinn left the back line exposed and outnumbered and that just invited pressure and pressure causes the errors. 

Mings is a good CB, he has lots of great qualities. The pairing of Konsa and Mings is more than good enough for where we are and as has been mentioned above we will not be signing better until we are at least knocking on the door of European qualification every season.

well observed....but this pairing has been around for a while now ( in this role)and both are not playing in their natural roles.....It has been pointed out, very often by posters on here.

We can't go past the summer, still saying the same things otherwise Europe will just be a pipe dream.

Our last line, needs protection, much better than they are getting.

[a m ole]

‘Ballwatching’ seems to be a phrase used when people want to attribute blame where there’s no real evidence to hang blame on.

Players watch the ball, it’s football. They also watch their man and the man of their nearest team mates in case they lose their marker in which case they have to mark both players by positioning themselves half way between.

 

[KentVillan]

I don't think Mings is an elite defender, and I think he's pretty close to his ceiling as a player. He's definitely prone to making mistakes, and can get caught too deep, leaving him with too much ground to cover, which is when he has his pants pulled down.

But he is definitely a decent PL CB, and isn't the main problem at the moment with our defence. The issue is that we're letting the oppo drive into space from midfield with too many options on, and it's almost impossible to pick the right position against that as a CB.

It's particularly bad down our left side as we play a left 10 who doesn't defend, and a LB who is asked to play very high. That's fine, Coutinho isn't fully fit, and he's a world class attacking talent, so we can cut him some slack. And Digne has been brought in specifically to offer that attacking width on the left.

But if we're going to do that, we need a very busy, defensively minded midfielder covering those gaps. Douglas Luiz isn't that player, unfortunately, as much as I rate him and do believe he can play DM in other systems.

So it's no surprise Mings is the one getting exposed over and over again.

That's not to excuse his individual errors, but the problem isn't just him, and it won't be fixed by signing Virgil van Dijk or whatever.

[DakotaVilla]

Mings is a good mid table defender. More importantly he is an awesome man that showed us passion and leadership when we desperately needed it and was integral to our growth to where we are today.

Unfortunately, he’s just not good enough to play regularly in a team that’s looking to get into Europe and nor should he want to be a squaddie considering his England spot. If he’s smart he’ll see the writing on the wall and leave in the summer. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, Bazmonkey said:

My bad....it  didn't show the picture I'm on about.

Here he is no man's land...just backing off...this allowed the forward inside for the shot

 

 

 

In that shot is 6 v 3 in actual fact, James could have passed it, and might have done better.

McGinn just trotted back and never went after James, just ball watching now....3 of our players are in no mans land. Knosa, Cash and McGinn...with 2 of their players totally free.

Martinez could be deemed too far of his line, in such circumstances, too.

[PaulC]

I was critical of him last night but I don't agree hes not good enough to take us to the next level. He is good enough but he needs to stick to defending properley 

[Chicken Field]

I am really looking forward to our next game, as I am caught in two minds. I really like and rate Mings, without having any stats, the amounts of blocks, clearances and tackles he seems to make are crazy, he often seems to do the job of 2 or even 3 defenders. BUT, I am not blind, he is erratic and makes many mistakes, I truly believe it is because he does too much, question is if he does too much as he has too, or if he is just too erratic. It'll be exciting to see him next to Chambers, who may not be world class, but is proven premier league quality, which Konsa sadly, is not yet.

Konsa imo, seems to passive and doesn't take command of the defence or his area, Mings seems to cover for him a lot. Also the having to pin every goal we concede on an individual mentality we have is beyond stupid. The amount of criticism that Mings gets is ridiculous, he's been amazing for us and one of, if not the most important defender, we have had for the past 20 years, there is definetly confirmation bias going on when people (probably me too) are watching him. Next game with Chambers will be interesting!

Edited February 10, 2022 by Chicken Field

[PaulC]

1 minute ago, Chicken Field said:

I truly believe it is because he does too much, question is if he does too much as he has too, or if he is just too erratic

Yes thats what i think. Maybe as captain he feels he has to!

[TRO]

39 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

I don't think Mings is an elite defender, and I think he's pretty close to his ceiling as a player. He's definitely prone to making mistakes, and can get caught too deep, leaving him with too much ground to cover, which is when he has his pants pulled down.

But he is definitely a decent PL CB, and isn't the main problem at the moment with our defence. The issue is that we're letting the oppo drive into space from midfield with too many options on, and it's almost impossible to pick the right position against that as a CB.

It's particularly bad down our left side as we play a left 10 who doesn't defend, and a LB who is asked to play very high. That's fine, Coutinho isn't fully fit, and he's a world class attacking talent, so we can cut him some slack. And Digne has been brought in specifically to offer that attacking width on the left.

But if we're going to do that, we need a very busy, defensively minded midfielder covering those gaps. Douglas Luiz isn't that player, unfortunately, as much as I rate him and do believe he can play DM in other systems.

So it's no surprise Mings is the one getting exposed over and over again.

That's not to excuse his individual errors, but the problem isn't just him, and it won't be fixed by signing Virgil van Dijk or whatever.

Your observation is right and I think with Digne and Coutinho included and no CDM we have exacerbated what was an already fragile situation.

However, McGinn and Luiz have been tried before and it came to a fruitless conclusion, albeit, we are short of options now....sadly, I can't agree with Luis  playing DM in any system, its just damage limitation for me.....a DLP is not a substitute for a CDM in my eyes.