Dean Smith

[villalad21]

2 minutes ago, useless said:

Our defence has been much improved of late, yesterday was the first time we'd conceded more than one goal since we conceded six to Man CIty, Man City and Fulham were the only teams in the whole of January to score more than one against us, and the Fulham game we were playing a second string side. Switching to three at the back has really helped us, I think yesterday was just one of those days.

Fact of the matter is we've got the joint worst defensive record in the league.

And we are the team that concede by far the most amount of shots.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

I am not being funny mate but is is hardly a shock is it that team struggling has deficiencies. You say you expected this season to be a struggle, it turns out to be a struggle and now you seem a little put out that we have certain problems in our game. You are right we concede too many as we struggle defensively and to retain possession. Watford don't score enough and I guess their supporters could give you reasons why. Likewise Bournemouth. Norwich don't score many and concede loads. West Ham like us always look good for a goal but concede too many. It is exactly what you'd expect from teams struggling they either concede too many, don't score many or both.

I am no more concerned now than I was at the start of the season. In fact I am thankful that as I had hoped we are making a real fist of staying up and 25 games in find ourselves it seems in with 5 other sides trying to keep ourselves above two of them and at the moment achieving it. I'd have taken that at the start of the season and obviously have expected that being in that position would mean we'd have struggled in certain parts of our game.

As for us going down if it happens I'll cross that bridge if we come to it but I already know we'll be in a stronger position financially than had we have stayed down and squad wise, despite obviously losing 3 or 4 of our best players, will still have solid foundations of a squad to build on to compete for promotion, That discussion is hopefully one we won't need to have though if we can maintain what we have done over the last 25 games.

Perhaps if some of those deficiences had been dealt with, we wouldn't be struggling quite so much as we are.

I am sorry Mark, I just don't accept the staus quo as much as you choose to see validity in it.....thats where we differ.

[useless]

Well as my post shows over the last month Smith has done something about that, because we're now conceding far fewer goals than we were, and results have improved. Before we switched to three at the back we were conceding two or more goals most games, but whilst playing three at the back, only Bournemouth and Man City have scored more than one against us.

Edited February 2, 2020 by useless

[Laughable Chimp]

11 minutes ago, useless said:

Our defence has been much improved of late, yesterday was the first time we'd conceded more than one goal since we conceded six to Man CIty, Man City and Fulham were the only teams in the whole of January to score more than one against us, and the Fulham game we were playing a second string side. Switching to three at the back has really helped us, I think yesterday was just one of those days.

I have to disagree tbh. I don't think our defence has been been that much improved as it is us being a bit luckier as of late. Our xGA for the past 5 games was 2.30 whilst our xGA for the previous 20 games is 2.012 which suggests we've actually been doing slightly worse in terms of the quality and quantity of chances we've conceded. Think abouut it, have we really been conceding less dangerous chances in the last 5 games compared to the previous 20 before? I wouldn't really say so.

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by Laughable Chimp

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, Adam2003 said:

I hear you TRO but to be fair we are one point off 15th. It’s all very tight.

Agreed with the previous point that it’s odd that people (not you in particular) seem to have accepted we will struggle but also seem surprised and furious about weaknesses in our game. 

Your point about the difference between the Leicester game and being second to every ball against Bournemouth is totally fair and that is on Smith to manage - part of management is turning those peaks into sustained performance not falling off for a game or two after big moments.

Precisely my point.....There are degrees of struggling.

whist we would all accept 17th right now, i was more hoping for 13/14/15th....maybe i was too ambitious.

I also think to eliminate all of our deficiencies is pushing it in 25 games.....but i don't think its too much to expect some of them could have been improved.

[KentVillan]

12 minutes ago, Laughable Chimp said:

This isn't true, for the Brentford part at least. 

Brentford conceded 59 goals in 46 games the season before he took charge at a rate of 1.3 goals conceded per game. The season he did take charge in, they conceded 24 goal in 17 games before he came in mid season. They would concede 41 goals in the remaining 29 games with Smith at the helm. Both come out to a rate of 1.4 goals conceded per game. 

None of it really matters tbh, but yeah I wouldn't really call that an improvement.

Look at the subsequent full seasons he managed (not one where he joined in November). Warburton’s best season was 59 goals conceded, Smith got that down to 52.

I’m not saying by any means is he a world class defensive coach, but at both Walsall and Brentford he had them conceding fewer goals, and yet one poster just keeps posting the same line over and over again, almost certainly because he doesn’t realise that Smith didn’t take over from Warburton, but had to pick up from the failed management of Dijkhuizen and Carsley.

Edited February 2, 2020 by KentVillan

[useless]

I think people are just overreacting to the Bournemouth defeat in general, if it had come after a series of bad results I could understand it, but we've been doing well recently, so I think there's enough reason to hope that yesterday was just a blip. We were always going to lose another game eventually, and will lose more before the season ends, but if we can keep up our general form up of the last month we won't be relegated.

[Laughable Chimp]

5 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

Look at the subsequent full seasons he managed. Warburton’s best season was 59 goals conceded, Smith got that down to 52.

I’m not saying by any means is he a world class defensive coach, but at both Walsall and Brentford he had them conceding fewer goals, and yet one poster just keeps posting the same line over and over again, almost certainly because he doesn’t realise that Smith didn’t take over from Warburton, but had to pick up from the failed management of Dijkhuizen and Carsley.

Tbf, its less Warbuurton's best season as it was Warburton's only season in the championship with them so I do think the comparison is a bit unfair in that regard.

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by Laughable Chimp

[TRO]

2 hours ago, terrytini said:

For me this is the crux of it.

Were we poor in all areas we’d be rock bottom.
Were we much better defensively but just as good offensively we’d be top half ! Was never likely in my view.

I disagree.

If we was as good defensively as we are offensively we would be just below half way, but more comfortable than we are.

We have scored in nearly every game, but that does not make us a free scoring entity...there is a subtle difference.

[terrytini]

7 minutes ago, TRO said:

Precisely my point.....There are degrees of struggling.

whist we would all accept 17th right now, i was more hoping for 13/14/15th....maybe i was too ambitious.

I also think to eliminate all of our deficiencies is pushing it in 25 games.....but i don't think its too much to expect some of them could have been improved.

 

8 minutes ago, TRO said:

Precisely my point.....There are degrees of struggling.

whist we would all accept 17th right now, i was more hoping for 13/14/15th....maybe i was too ambitious.

I also think to eliminate all of our deficiencies is pushing it in 25 games.....but i don't think its too much to expect some of them could have been improved.

That’s why I think you overdo the concern.

Basically if, for example, we’d beaten Palace, we WOULD be 14th !

One result.

[KentVillan]

1 minute ago, Laughable Chimp said:

Tbf, its less Warbuurton's best season as it was Warburton's only season in the championship with them so I do think the comparison is a bit unfair in that regard.

Absolutely a fair point - but I wasn’t criticising Warburton. Just saying there’s no evidence that Smith makes teams defensively worse, as some people keep claiming.

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, terrytini said:

 

That’s why I think you overdo the concern.

Basically if, for example, we’d beaten Palace, we WOULD be 14th !

One result.

I don't think, i do overdo the concern, if we go down, you will see.

And I am sure, without me searching there are wins we could have lost, so we are back to square one.

I think you are missing my point terry......I am talking about issues in our play, that had we put right, we may......may be in a more comfortable position, like Newcastle for Instance.....are they better than us? I don't think they are necessarily, but they are a bit more difficult to beat.....subsequently in a less sweaty position.

 

 

Edited February 2, 2020 by TRO

[terrytini]

While we are saying our defence is so much worse than others....we’ve played Man City twice....our GD v them being Minus 8.

West Ham, Burnley, Saints, Newcastle, Norwich, Watford, Brighton, and Bournemouth all have to play them their second time.

 

Im not saying it will change everything, but it’s at least as relevant as the subjective stuff.

[terrytini]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I don't think, i do overdo the concern, if we go down, you will see.

And I am sure, without me searching there are wins we could have lost, so we are back to square one.

I think you are missing my point terry......I am talking about issues in our play, that had we put right, we may......may be in a more comfortable position, like Newcastle for Instance.....are they better than us? I don't think they are necessarily, but they are a bit more difficult to beat.....subsequently in a less sweaty position.

 

 

As I say, for all your concerns, had we won that one game we’d be where you ( unrealistically in my view but fair enough) hoped we’d be.

So by definition it can’t be as bad as you say !

[TRO]

1 minute ago, terrytini said:

While we are saying our defence is so much worse than others....we’ve played Man City twice....our GD v them being Minus 8.

West Ham, Burnley, Saints, Newcastle, Norwich, Watford, Brighton, and Bournemouth all have to play them their second time.

 

Im not saying it will change everything, but it’s at least as relevant as the subjective stuff.

Well, thats good news.....but I would prefer, we wrote our own history and not rely on others.

[lexicon]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

And I am sure, without me searching there are wins we could have lost, so we are back to square one.

I think you are missing my point terry......I am talking about issues in our play, that had we put right, we may......may be in a more comfortable position, like Newcastle for Instance.....are they better than us? I don't think they are necessarily, but they are a bit more difficult to beat.....subsequently in a less sweaty position.

 

 

I think you're underestimating both the time it takes and the difficulty of the league. It's very tight this year and for most of our players and coaching staff, a new experience. 

[terrytini]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

I don't think, i do overdo the concern, if we go down, you will see.

And I am sure, without me searching there are wins we could have lost, so we are back to square one.

I think you are missing my point terry......I am talking about issues in our play, that had we put right, we may......may be in a more comfortable position, like Newcastle for Instance.....are they better than us? I don't think they are necessarily, but they are a bit more difficult to beat.....subsequently in a less sweaty position.

 

 

I really really didn’t, and dont, expect us to above the likes of Newcastle.  Goodness me they were 13 th in May, while we were 5th in the Championship !

Anyway, that side of it has been done to death. But it does show how closely linked are expectations and satisfaction.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, terrytini said:

As I say, for all your concerns, had we won that one game we’d be where you ( unrealistically in my view but fair enough) hoped we’d be.

So by definition it can’t be as bad as you say !

Equally, we could still finish where. had hoped13/14/15th in which case there is no concern....but i have doubts we will, by what i see in our low games.

my concerns come from watching the games....I still see errors from last season, forgive me for thinking that some of those could have been improved.

[terrytini]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

Well, thats good news.....but I would prefer, we wrote our own history and not rely on others.

No idea what that means.

I quoted some - more - facts, and you responded with, well I don’t know.

Im making the point there are more reasons why we might’ve - currently - Conceeded more than others.

I guess you’ve ploughed the furrow of us being a soft touch for so long you will remain there regardless.

Im very thankful most are more optimistic and more ready to see our efforts in context.

[GingerCollins29]

2 hours ago, screwdriver said:

If we need a new manager bounce in April I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger.

That's worked dead well for wet spam hasn't it