TRO Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, Graham t said: We are not 'making 'a good fist of it', we are struggling. The reason we were the second highest spenders in the Premiership was to ensure that we survived. That is a long way from being certain, indeed it looks tenuous at best. Put yourself in the owners position, if the club spent £146 million on players ( of 'your money' ) in the summer and then got relegated I imagine you would be very unhappy and would be asking how this could happen. As a successful football club/ business we need to be moving forward . Spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post markavfc40 Posted February 2, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted February 2, 2020 21 minutes ago, TRO said: I'm not intersted in every other side, if I was i would cite Sheff utd or Newcastle who pound for pound are no better than us, just secured more points. I am talking about us. I think being first to the ball at The vitality stadium is not too much to ask on the back of a great semi final win. and that one win as terry talks about is not so easy to come by with our unpredictable play. Wilder has done a remarkable job at Sheff Utd and deserves all the praise he is getting. The advantage he has over Smith is that he has been at Sheff Utd nearly 4 years and built a squad over the first 3 years that didn't require a turnover of 25+ players in the summer. Still a great achievement though what they are doing this season and he is manager of the season for me. As for Newcastle I am not sure with a two year head start on us in the Prem league to find themselves 6 points ahead of us is an achievement. I'd also not be happy to watch the tripe Bruce teams serve up again. Wouldn't argue that we are inconsistent and just as likely to serve up some decent stuff as we did at Burnley, Leicester twice and Watford over the last month as we are to serve up what we did yesterday. That is what comes though when you sign so many players with ability, plenty of potential but who lack experience at the level you are playing. Unfortunately being able to sign proven quality at this level wasn't possible alongside the quantity we needed. As I said that is where the likes of Watford, Bournemouth, West Ham, Brighton and even Burnley, Newcastle, Arsenal, Palace, Southampton who only find themselves a handful of points above us, have a huge advantage in that they have had years to put squads together who can compete at this level. Smith/Purslow/Suso had 2 transfer windows (if you include last Jan when we were lower half championship) to put together a squad that could compete whilst also battling FFP. Thankfully they have done well enough that we are still well in the mix to stay up. 7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Just now, PieFacE said: But, we had to pretty much buy a whole new team. Each signing probably averages a spend of £10m, which is nothing for the Premier League these days. To which, we've lost 2 of those signings for half a season, and one of our most influential players in McGinn being out for months. These things aren't black and white, and the owners will understand that too. But for examples against, there are examples for. its not a case of high expectation.....its more a case of getting basics right. I think 25 games is enough to see some improvement in basics.. 4 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: Wilder has done a remarkable job at Sheff Utd and deserves all the praise he is getting. The advantage he has over Smith is that he has been at Sheff Utd nearly 4 years and built a squad over the first 3 years that didn't require a turnover of 25+ players in the summer. Still a great achievement though what they are doing this season and he is manager of the season for me. As for Newcastle I am not sure with a two year head start on us in the Prem league to find themselves 6 points ahead of us is an achievement. I'd also not be happy to watch the tripe Bruce teams serve up again. Wouldn't argue that we are inconsistent and just as likely to serve up some decent stuff as we did at Burnley, Leicester twice and Watford over the last month as we are to serve up what we did yesterday. That is what comes though when you sign so many players with ability, plenty of potential but who lack experience at the level you are playing. Unfortunately being able to sign proven quality at this level wasn't possible alongside the quantity we needed. As I said that is where the likes of Watford, Bournemouth, West Ham, Brighton and even Burnley, Newcastle, Arsenal, Palace, Southampton who only find themselves a handful of points above us, have a huge advantage in that they have had years to put squads together who can compete at this level. Smith/Purslow/Suso had 2 transfer windows (if you include last Jan when we were lower half championship) to put together a squad that could compete whilst also battling FFP. Thankfully they have done well enough that we are still well in the mix to stay up. I appreciate your view mark and it is reasonable, i take it on board.....i am in no postion to argue with it, but I am in a position to say, i am not convinced, by it. If i see us being first to balls, winning second balls and playing football that does not encourage the opposition.....you will be the first, i will admit to ,I was wrong to have these concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: Wilder has done a remarkable job at Sheff Utd and deserves all the praise he is getting. The advantage he has over Smith is that he has been at Sheff Utd nearly 4 years and built a squad over the first 3 years that didn't require a turnover of 25+ players in the summer. Still a great achievement though what they are doing this season and he is manager of the season for me. As for Newcastle I am not sure with a two year head start on us in the Prem league to find themselves 6 points ahead of us is an achievement. I'd also not be happy to watch the tripe Bruce teams serve up again. Wouldn't argue that we are inconsistent and just as likely to serve up some decent stuff as we did at Burnley, Leicester twice and Watford over the last month as we are to serve up what we did yesterday. That is what comes though when you sign so many players with ability, plenty of potential but who lack experience at the level you are playing. Unfortunately being able to sign proven quality at this level wasn't possible alongside the quantity we needed. As I said that is where the likes of Watford, Bournemouth, West Ham, Brighton and even Burnley, Newcastle, Arsenal, Palace, Southampton who only find themselves a handful of points above us, have a huge advantage in that they have had years to put squads together who can compete at this level. Smith/Purslow/Suso had 2 transfer windows (if you include last Jan when we were lower half championship) to put together a squad that could compete whilst also battling FFP. Thankfully they have done well enough that we are still well in the mix to stay up. Mark ,lets say this with Wilder, he has done remarkable and we could learn a lot from him....but the team you cite as being together are journeymen in the main, its not like he has had a few hundred million pound squad to gel.....their quality is not individual, its come from the training ground.....and a philosophy, that works. they have made themselves hard to beat, by hunting the ball down in packs for 90 odd minutes. I do not argue with the time together, but the quality was not there, its been developed in to a team ethic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I have to say I am perplexed as to why Smith is taking so much flak for the Bournemouth result, when frankly it was not a tactical battle. You can’t say Eddie Howe outsmarted Smith. We just played badly. This is very different from the Leicester drubbing at Villa Park or the Watford away game, where we genuinely looked tactically poor as well as individually. Our current form is pretty good - certainly not relegation form. We’ve had a bad result on the road. We move on. Samatta looks settled already, hopefully we can get Drinkwater fit. McGinn will be back in March (?) we have another strike option. It all points towards us doing slightly better in the second half of the season than we did in the first. That ought to keep us up. I still think we will string together a run of wins at some point which will push us up the table. Smith has a strong record of consistently doing this at every club he has managed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham t Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Yes I appreciate that players need time to 'gell'. But when we lose , which Is often, the Manager repeatedly complains that the players aren't working hard enough without, apparently, realising that it is his job to ensure that players compete at 100% intensity. You don't need the most gifted players to survive in the Premiership, you need players who work harder than the opposition and are well coached so that they know what to do and when to do it. Not ,as they say, rocket science.... Regards, VLD. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, KentVillan said: I still think we will string together a run of wins at some point which will push us up the table. Smith has a strong record of consistently doing this at every club he has managed. Where is this run of wind going to come from? We have thirteen games left not thirty with some tough opposition coming up who we have got nothing out of in the reverse fixtures. We also haven’t shown any signs of going on any kind of run this season. Last season was different as we had one of the best teams in the league along with two of the Premier leagues best players this season in the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, TRO said: But for examples against, there are examples for. its not a case of high expectation.....its more a case of getting basics right. I think 25 games is enough to see some improvement in basics.. I appreciate your view mark and it is reasonable, i take it on board.....i am in no postion to argue with it, but I am in a position to say, i am not convinced, by it. If i see us being first to balls, winning second balls and playing football that does not encourage the opposition.....you will be the first, i will admit to ,I was wrong to have these concerns. I agree, basic requirements like being first to the ball etc shouldn’t ever be an issue, but unfortunately they are things that we do inconsistently. I’m not sure what the reason is but, with the exception of possibly only Liverpool this season, I’m pretty sure pubs, workplaces and forums like this will be full of fans of every club asking the same questions. No coaches or players at this level need to learn these skills and yet there are times when they go inexplicably missing. The only explanation I can think of, is that football teams are made up of humans and are not computer generated. So like in every profession people have good days and bad days. It may be as simple as the bloke you’re up against woke up this morning feeling on top of the world and you had a row with the wife and trod in some dog sh1t on the way to the car. Humans, you can never tell what they’re going to do. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, jim said: Where is this run of wind going to come from? We have thirteen games left not thirty with some tough opposition coming up who we have got nothing out of in the reverse fixtures. We also haven’t shown any signs of going on any kind of run this season. Last season was different as we had one of the best teams in the league along with two of the Premier leagues best players this season in the team. I’m not sure Jim, but the isobars are looking a bit closer together and with some weather fronts building over the Azores, things could be looking up soon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentVillan Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, jim said: Where is this run of wind going to come from? We have thirteen games left not thirty with some tough opposition coming up who we have got nothing out of in the reverse fixtures. We also haven’t shown any signs of going on any kind of run this season. Last season was different as we had one of the best teams in the league along with two of the Premier leagues best players this season in the team. We only need a run of 3 wins to surge up the table. There are plenty of winnable games left to play. I fancy our chances against teams like Man Utd and Chelsea at Villa Park. The only game I’d write off is the Liverpool game, where we’d do well to nick a draw. Smith’s record of very strong finishes goes back to his Walsall days, so he’s done it with relatively weak teams as well. It wasn’t just last season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, TRO said: Mark ,lets say this with Wilder, he has done remarkable and we could learn a lot from him....but the team you cite as being together are journeymen in the main, its not like he has had a few hundred million pound squad to gel.....their quality is not individual, its come from the training ground.....and a philosophy, that works. they have made themselves hard to beat, by hunting the ball down in packs for 90 odd minutes. I do not argue with the time together, but the quality was not there, its been developed in to a team ethic. I agree what Wilder has done at Sheff Utd has been developed and they have a real team ethic and that does indeed come from the training ground. It has been developed over a number of years though and not with a turnover in one summer of over 25 players and then straight away trying to compete in one of the hardest leagues in the world. I am more than happy to heap as much praise as you want, and some, on Wilder. I am though just as happy to heap praise on Smith who in his 15 months here has done a very good job all things considered. Even with regard to this season I think you can see that. It is just a little confusing though that on the one hand you say that you expected us to struggle and be about where we are but on the other hand you seem really disappointed that we haven't exceeded your expectations and only met them. Edited February 2, 2020 by markavfc40 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Sheffield United have spend £70m plus this season, and in addition to that have brought in some decent loan players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, useless said: Sheffield United have spend £70m plus this season, and in addition to that have brought in some decent loan players. That figure is a bit misleading. Haven't they just spent a big chunk of that money? It's not like they've had those players since the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Well they've just spend £20m on Berge, but they stil spent £50m in the summer, and brought in a bunch of loan players. Not taking anything away from, just think that this idea that they're doing it on cheap is a bit misleading. Norwich are doing it on the cheap, a team that was way better than everyone last season in the championship, and look at them now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted February 2, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted February 2, 2020 37 minutes ago, TRO said: Mark ,lets say this with Wilder, he has done remarkable and we could learn a lot from him....but the team you cite as being together are journeymen in the main, its not like he has had a few hundred million pound squad to gel.....their quality is not individual, its come from the training ground.....and a philosophy, that works. they have made themselves hard to beat, by hunting the ball down in packs for 90 odd minutes. I do not argue with the time together, but the quality was not there, its been developed in to a team ethic. Ok but in the previous games we had that in spades, and we were doing more running, working harder, being first to the second ball, all of that. We didn't do it against Bournemouth. It's not like you've never seen us do it though right?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazmonkey Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I'm sorry but people need to take the claret and blue glasses off and see the bigger picture. Apart from a few players...This is a poor team ran by a poor manager. Although we lost yesterday it's not an over reaction by people to raise their concerns...its been the same all season. Most shots on goal...most goals conceded....least possession in most games...giving points away points from winning positions....the lack of movement....the lack of quality...the lack of basic football skills. Without Jack and Heaton...or whoever's is goal this team would be bottom. I read constantly that we defended well...we dont dont defend well...we retreat and hope.for the best. Leicester watford Brighton same inept performances but somehow we came away with 3 points and a trip to Wembley. The constant formation changing...rotating players it's just not good enough. To say we will be ok if we went down is crazy. Smith got lucky last season with Jack.. tammy...mcginn and mings playing well. We would lose all three and to think some think smith would be ok....not a chance. El gazi...poor at championship poor here...hourihane the same...we would be relying on these to get us back up. The last transfer window..a player in drinkwater who hasnt played in years is going to save us...a random player from Swansea with one goal is going to save us..samatta...possible based on the two games will had something and pep...actually look ok. I wasnt expecting us to be challenging for the top but what I did expected is for us to at least show on our day we can compete and maybe have a bit of faith every Saturday that actually we might be alright today. To stay in this league this season is more important than ever...to keep our better players and bot be stuck in the championship for years. Smith need to.wake up and stop blaming players and look at himself. Pick a team that can play...pick team on more than one occasion. The fact it's taken 25 games and he still doesnt know is a major concern regardless of what league we are in. I have seen us play well in parts and I've sat their and thought...we look good but something happens and it a goes to rat. There are 13 games left and everyone is a cup final...to stay in the league...to keep our better players....to build on next year not have to rebuild Can we do it...I think we can...will we...no I dont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 46 minutes ago, KentVillan said: I have to say I am perplexed as to why Smith is taking so much flak for the Bournemouth result, when frankly it was not a tactical battle. You can’t say Eddie Howe outsmarted Smith. We just played badly. This is very different from the Leicester drubbing at Villa Park or the Watford away game, where we genuinely looked tactically poor as well as individually. Our current form is pretty good - certainly not relegation form. We’ve had a bad result on the road. We move on. Samatta looks settled already, hopefully we can get Drinkwater fit. McGinn will be back in March (?) we have another strike option. It all points towards us doing slightly better in the second half of the season than we did in the first. That ought to keep us up. I still think we will string together a run of wins at some point which will push us up the table. Smith has a strong record of consistently doing this at every club he has managed. Not jumping on Smith's back here but I thought Bournemouth had a very clear tactical idea against us that worked really well for them. They put our CB's, mainly Mings who we want to distribute the ball under pressure and almost marked him out so that he had to punt the ball. He did so mainly towards the center of the pitch where they had Billings who was always going to win most of the ball in the air. It wasn't perhaps a tactical masterstroke by Howe but it was a simple thing that caused us a lot of trouble. We could have mitigated some of this by simple distributed the ball towards the flanks rather than the middle but we didn't sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 As the season develops we’ll play teams with not much to play for, hopefully our need can overcome the lack of theirs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 I think rebuilding a squad and getting that new team of players playing at a level that gets us points was always going to be hard, I doubt many managers would be doing better right now. The issue I have is there isn't much in the way of coaching and tactics that you can see that really impact the way we play and our results. Things that would alarm anyone: 1) We offer virtually no threat from set pieces (Connor is good at free kicks but now rarely plays) 2) Our record of scoring headers is appalling (Samatta's goal being a rarity) 3) We rarely see out games when we are ahead 4) We can't beat ten men 5) No two midfielders are capable of playing well more than two games running alongside each other 6) El Ghazi or Trez are incapable of playing well more than one game in about four 7) I've only seen two games this season where our substitutions have paid off 8. The half time talks when we are being beaten usually just lead to a even worse second half performance 9). His attitude to teams above us who beat us is 'ah well we were never likely to beat them anyway' which i find strange Losing Wes was a huge blow, although most would admit his form wasn't what most of the fans demanded and playing as a lone striker was ridiculous considering his age and experience. Losing McGinn was terrible also, but again his form was utter crap long befire he was injured, he always seemed to be played too far forward and isolated, maybe in this new system he would have thrived though. Heaton's injury was the biggest blow I think. Dean still does not know his best eleven, especially his best midfield grouping. Drinkwater is not match fit - and will probably struggle for a few games more before offering a decent option. We have a lot of players who will continue to be inconsistent and deliver one week and disappoint the next. Grealish won't keep us from going down on his own. I genuinely have no idea what the answers are but i'm not being paid millions a year to work it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 (edited) On 02/02/2020 at 22:07, Bazmonkey said: To say we will be ok if we went down is crazy. Smith got lucky last season with Jack.. tammy...mcginn and mings playing well. Klopps been lucky with Van Dijk, Salah, Firmino, Mane and Trent Alexander playing well also ... Rodgers has been lucky with Maddson, Vardy et al playing well too. Guardiola been lucky with De Bruyne, Sterling and Aguero playing well. You mean to tell me that teams best players, playing well correlates with good results? Mind.... BLOWN!!! Edited February 3, 2020 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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