Dean Smith

[Demitri_C]

10 hours ago, Keyblade said:

He kept up a much worse Villa side who were in a similar position in March of 2020. 

With a little help from covid and goal line technology failing!

[Mark Albrighton]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

With a little help from covid and goal line technology failing!

I’m afraid I can’t tell how tongue in cheek you’re being.

But for those who do genuinely feel like that.

The goal line technology failing, that happened when, during the first half? Who’s to say how the team would have reacted. If it had happened in the 89th minute, I’d be much more inclined to use it as a stick to be critical with.

And covid halting the season, yeah Dean Smith used that time to analyse all the matches in greater detail, discussing it with the players (sounds vaguely familiar to the current fella).

He was gifted that extra preparation time - like every single other manager in the game was gifted it. If those who were in a similar position to us didn’t use that extra time as wisely that’s on them. If they did and they didn’t improve, then they didn’t do it as well as they should have done.

[Demitri_C]

15 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

I’m afraid I can’t tell how tongue in cheek you’re being.

But for those who do genuinely feel like that.

The goal line technology failing, that happened when, during the first half? Who’s to say how the team would have reacted. If it had happened in the 89th minute, I’d be much more inclined to use it as a stick to be critical with.

And covid halting the season, yeah Dean Smith used that time to analyse all the matches in greater detail, discussing it with the players (sounds vaguely familiar to the current fella).

He was gifted that extra preparation time - like every single other manager in the game was gifted it. If those who were in a similar position to us didn’t use that extra time as wisely that’s on them. If they did and they didn’t improve, then they didn’t do it as well as they should have done.

The goal line technology thing was tongue and cheek as deano had more going against him definitely 

However the covid thing i dont agree with. We were on horrendous form. The game before the season paused we got spanked 4-0 by leicester which was truly awful. The break helped beacuse i do believe smith either would have been sacked or we would have gone down if the pause never happened

[Mark Albrighton]

11 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

The goal line technology thing was tongue and cheek as deano had more going against him definitely 

However the covid thing i dont agree with. We were on horrendous form. The game before the season paused we got spanked 4-0 by leicester which was truly awful. The break helped beacuse i do believe smith either would have been sacked or we would have gone down if the pause never happened

But it did happen and it happened to all the teams. I imagine if you had told Dean Smith (or any manager) he would have one fewer game of home support than those teams around you in the league (which was the case), he wouldn’t have been terribly happy. That would be a fair and legitimate grievance to have.

And while you may think we would have been relegated (in much the same way a lot think we were with Gerrard - harking back to an earlier discussion elsewhere), I would be willing to bet that at the time of the covid break, a significant number of supporters of West Ham, Bournemouth, Watford were also thinking that they were going down too.

Football supporters tend to think that it’s their team that’s destined to drop, if you want evidence you can look at the majority of forums of the clubs currently occupying the bottom half. 

[Demitri_C]

33 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

But it did happen and it happened to all the teams. I imagine if you had told Dean Smith (or any manager) he would have one fewer game of home support than those teams around you in the league (which was the case), he wouldn’t have been terribly happy. That would be a fair and legitimate grievance to have.

And while you may think we would have been relegated (in much the same way a lot think we were with Gerrard - harking back to an earlier discussion elsewhere), I would be willing to bet that at the time of the covid break, a significant number of supporters of West Ham, Bournemouth, Watford were also thinking that they were going down too.

Football supporters tend to think that it’s their team that’s destined to drop, if you want evidence you can look at the majority of forums of the clubs currently occupying the bottom half. 

I think the reason was that we were on a terrible run of form at that point when covid hit. We looked hopeless and nothing was going right for us. Smith looked lost and the job seemed too big.

I think the no fans helped as well as we did very well  at villa park post covid. Guess we will never know what would have happened...

[HanoiVillan]

Tbh I think you're both right, in that we were going down without covid but Smith did use the time more wisely than other managers. In that mission, I think he was helped by the nature of the change needed (tightening up at the back) being *so* obvious for us. 

[StefanAVFC]

The point we gained by the Hawkeye nonsense is cancelled out by Kevin Friend's blatant cheating at Palace.

[Keyblade]

4 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

With a little help from covid and goal line technology failing!

I didn't realise Villa were the only team to be affected by COVID? Also there were more than 45 minutes of football + the rest of the season to play out after the Hawkeye incident. By the same token you can point to the Palace incident and say we should have stayed up anyway. That's not how it works.

[Demitri_C]

5 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I didn't realise Villa were the only team to be affected by COVID? Also there were more than 45 minutes of football + the rest of the season to play out after the Hawkeye incident. By the same token you can point to the Palace incident and say we should have stayed up anyway. That's not how it works.

We were one of the teams that benefited from it though thats a fact look where where we were before and after

Edited April 12, 2023 by Demitri_C

[Keyblade]

5 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

We were one of the teams that benefited from it though thats a fact look where where we were before and after

Yes, and that was down to Smith for taking advantage of it. The opportunity was there for every other manager.

Also before COVID we were 19th, 2 points from safety. We finished 17th, 1 point off the drop zone. Hardly an Unai Emery style monumental turnaround.

[Demitri_C]

2 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Yes, and that was down to Smith for taking advantage of it. The opportunity was there for every other manager.

Also before COVID we were 19th, 2 points from safety. We finished 17th, 1 point off the drop zone. Hardly an Unai Emery style monumental turnaround.

Deano lost 4 games on the trot at the ooint before [5 if you include cup final and lets not forget one of them was a abysmal loss 2-1 against 10 man Bournemouth 

We were on a terrible run and fans were turning. Im convinced smith wouldnt have lasted the season. The break helped greatly. It wasnt the whole reason we stayed up butvit massively helped

[fightoffyour]

31 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

The point we gained by the Hawkeye nonsense is cancelled out by Kevin Friend's blatant cheating at Palace.

Is this simplest rebuttal.

And that was literally the last kick of the game so there's no argument that we weren't robbed a point there.

Edited April 12, 2023 by fightoffyour

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, Demitri_C said:

Deano lost 4 games on the trot at the ooint before [5 if you include cup final and lets not forget one of them was a abysmal loss 2-1 against 10 man Bournemouth 

We were on a terrible run and fans were turning. Im convinced smith wouldnt have lasted the season. The break helped greatly. It wasnt the whole reason we stayed up butvit massively helped

Why didn't it help our rivals who were on similar runs? What stopped Bournemouth or Watford from pulling clear from us?

[Demitri_C]

1 minute ago, Keyblade said:

Why didn't it help our rivals who were on similar runs? What stopped Bournemouth or Watford from pulling clear from us?

That could have happened if the season. Its all ifs and buts but my opinion is we would have gone down had we not had that long break. It did us a world of good

None of us will ever know though

[VillaChris]

45 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said:

Tbh I think you're both right, in that we were going down without covid but Smith did use the time more wisely than other managers. In that mission, I think he was helped by the nature of the change needed (tightening up at the back) being *so* obvious for us. 

I actually wonder where DS would've been now if we'd played that Chelsea home match in March 2020 and lost. I think with a normal schedule there would've been a three week break after so DS was as good as gone. I don't think he'd have picked up two prem jobs since if it had played out like that.

I was talking to a fan of Everton who dosen't mind us at all as a club and he remembers 20/21 well given we played Everton near the end and they fell away badly before Ancelotti left.

He's very clued up on most clubs and he said DS is decent without being amazing. He pointed out correctly we were excellent back to front for first six months of 20/21 but why such a drop off after Grealish picked up his injury, where was the plan B?

He said Newcastle have been without Almiron for last 4-5 games and you'd never guess it as Newcastle have just played the same way. When we lost Grealish we went from creating 4-5 quality chances a game to basically nothing bar Ollie poaching a goal or Bert scoring a worldie.

I think that perception rightly or wrongly is what's always going to prevent him going a little higher in managerial league than other managers. That's without even looking at 21/22 where we suddenly switched to 3-5-2 to get in Tuanzebe and that tactical change cost him his job in the end.

People will wonder how Potter got the Chelsea job but at start of season Brighton had their best every start to prem season despite losing Cucerella and Bissouma.

Still I wish DS plenty of luck there but get the feeling he'll need Maddison out there for every single minute of the run in.

[tomav84]

1 hour ago, Demitri_C said:

That could have happened if the season. Its all ifs and buts but my opinion is we would have gone down had we not had that long break. It did us a world of good

None of us will ever know though

i do actually agree here. reputable journos said that a loss in the next game (chelsea at home) would see smith sacked. we were heading in one direction and depending on who replaced deano there's a good chance we'd have been relegated.

HOWEVER...several players indicated what a great job smith did during lockdown, with the daily zoom calls going over tactics, reviewing clips etc both in large and small groups. we set up much harder to beat when we returned and smith should get a lot of credit for that

[Zatman]

4 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

i do actually agree here. reputable journos said that a loss in the next game (chelsea at home) would see smith sacked. we were heading in one direction and depending on who replaced deano there's a good chance we'd have been relegated.

its actually when the Gerrard rumours started appearing

[DCJonah]

Wait. Dean Smith being able to turn round a certain relegation because of Covid is somehow a knock on him as a manager?

Insane thinking. 

 

[Keyblade]

3 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

That could have happened if the season. Its all ifs and buts but my opinion is we would have gone down had we not had that long break. It did us a world of good

None of us will ever know though

The only ifs and buts I'm seeing are "if COVID didnt happen..." or "if it weren't for Hawkeye..." etc. The fact of the matter is he kept us up. Doesn't really matter how.

[RichW]

3 hours ago, Demitri_C said:

Deano lost 4 games on the trot at the ooint before [5 if you include cup final and lets not forget one of them was a abysmal loss 2-1 against 10 man Bournemouth 

We were on a terrible run and fans were turning. Im convinced smith wouldnt have lasted the season. The break helped greatly. It wasnt the whole reason we stayed up butvit massively helped

Pretty sure that Percy had an article saying if Villa convincingly lost to Chelsea that weekend he was going to be sacked. Think even Carragher/Neville we’re debating on MNF whether it was worth sticking or too late to sack him as who could we get to try keep us up. Remember thinking after that 4-0 loss to Leicester Monday night there was no chance of stopping up. Can’t remember if it was that game where Smith called out players in the squad as “training ground players” might have been before but it seemed his time was coming to an end. 

Smith used lockdown well which kept us up but I’m pretty sure if it wasn’t for Covid Villa would have been back in the Championship.