Dean Smith

[nick76]

8 minutes ago, KentVillan said:

If we have a soft underbelly, then I'm just wondering what examples there are of teams in modern football (i.e. in 2021, not in 1982) who are "hard"?

[Sam-AVFC]

2 minutes ago, penguin said:

Blaming the crowd seems lazy analysis to me. 

Are Villa fans really unique in anyway to other fans in the league? Unless the issue lies with the players mentally.

Never really understood the "fickle" point either - Villa fans aren't a collective conscious there are millions of people each with their own opinion. I'm sure there are certain people whose opinions change completely based on the last result but I'd be very surprised if it was anything other than a small minority. 

I'm simply basing it on how quickly our fans start to abuse our players when they're playing badly compared with other clubs. Call it lazy analysis if you want, it's just my observation from watching football throughout my life. I've also met a lot of away fans who have the same opinion of us after going to VP.

Obviously no one is suggesting that every fan of particular teams are better/worse than others, but each home crowd tends to have its own personality and reacts to circumstances in a pretty consistent manner.

[danceoftheshamen]

Just been wondering about DS repeatedly stating how he doesn't really agree with "burnout" being a real issue with Premier League players. Is this a bit of an unrealistic view from him and a kind of "blind spot" which is now costing us??  I mean we looked so off the pace last night and we seem to be conceding more & more possession recently. Even the Southampton win was a true back to walls job although i appreciate they played well.

Dunno, it's just with the margins between winning & losing being so miniscule in the Premier League surely even a little drop in energy levels is going to cost you and we are looking jaded to me.

 

[KentVillan]

6 minutes ago, penguin said:

Blaming the crowd seems lazy analysis to me. 

Are Villa fans really unique in anyway to other fans in the league? Unless the issue lies with the players mentally.

Never really understood the "fickle" point either - Villa fans aren't a collective conscious there are millions of people each with their own opinion. I'm sure there are certain people whose opinions change completely based on the last result but I'd be very surprised if it was anything other than a small minority. 

I think some clubs have different expectations. Villa fanbase for a long time have expected a team that is competing for top 5 (ish) in Premier League, and so they turn on the players very quickly when we aren't performing at that level.

There are a few clubs with good histories and big stadiums who have this problem. Currently you'd say Arsenal, Villa, Spurs, Newcastle, and further down the league you've got maybe Forest, Wednesday, Sunderland. It's that combination of a big fanbase who've experienced success, massive stadium, and a squad that can't live up to that.

They're all teams where oppo will be saying "get the first goal and we can turn the fans against them".

[Sam-AVFC]

1 minute ago, sne said:

Agreed. I think Villa have rather good fans and the away support is usually fantastic. Bound to be some extreme opinions and morons but that goes for every club.

If you think our players have it bad on social media or during games then just look at how it is at bigger clubs where there is pressure to win every game every week and every mistake is dissected both by fans and by national and international media. 

Bet someone like Phil Jones would happily be called a "waster" on some forum rather than what he'd have gone through at Manure.

It has nothing to do with forums. How many times has Phil Jones been booed off the pitch for Utd? Mings would have been at least 5 times this season based on how atrocious people seem to think he's been and our crowds previous form for patience.

Away crowds are a different matter altogether. Ours are absolutely fantastic and offer the unconditional support we could only dream of at home often out singing the home crowd all match.

Maybe we aren't as bad on social media as other fans due to there being less of us to dish out the abuse, but let's not forget abuse by Villa fans forced one of our players to close down their social media accounts just a matter of months ago.

[GingerCollins29]

27 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

I mean lots to deal with here. 

First, no one has praised last night. Everyone has accepted it was poor. 

What has ambition got to do with it? I want to beat west ham and we have shown we are capable of beating teams like West ham, but moaning that we should is based on very little. There is no reason why we should beat them. They're a good team in very good form. 

Praised was the wrong word. Its more accepting it. Yeh we were poor snd lost but look at where we were is not progressive or ambitious. 

[TRO]

2 hours ago, nick76 said:

(Not at you but generally)

But isnt that the narrative so often on this forum and other web feeds.  Always looking for the negative and exclude the positive in the situation

        Burnley - doesnt matter that we played so well we conceded silly goals and lost the game

        Southampton -  yeah we won the game but the important thing is we didnt play well and didnt used subs.  We dont use subs all season

        West Ham - we played poorly, that's not good enough we need to play well.  Dont talk about playing well all season we need to focus on this game.  

It's just all contradictory depending on the game.....its about playing well, dont worry about playing well. It's about winning not performance but we won despite the performance.

Dont get me started about rotation

 

Last night wasnt good enough I agree, we have things to improve on, we need more players, our players look a little leggy but where we are now there are so many more positives about us at the moment but sometimes on this website it doesnt feel like it.

I think with 32 points in the bag, we must be doing something right.....of course we are doing some things well. and in some games we are excellent, but in other games, not so much.

There are issues to discuss, if we want to progress, providing we do it constructively, why not.....there was plenty of topic from last Night.....Saturday, might be a completely different ball game.

I never go on Twitter or face book or other web feeds, I just restrict myself to VT

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by TRO

[DCJonah]

25 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

I think Smith often takes the plaudits for keeping us up, and for what we have done this season, but I think that ignores the fact that he's been heavily backed.

 

Yes he's had to build a team and that's not an easy thing to do, but I tell you it's far easier to do it when you've got fabulous owners like ours who have invested very heavily in the playing squad and backed him in pretty much every window (FFP exempting). 

 

He was also given time when we were struggling badly last season which most managers wouldn't get given given the amount of money spent and was allowed to recruit key men like Shakespeare this summer who have helped massively on and off the pitch.

 

This season he has generally done a very good job and on the whole we've played attacking football and been great to watch, but there are still many things he can improve on if he's to push us on to that next level. 

Wow. Just wow. 

[sne]

1 minute ago, Sam-AVFC said:

It has nothing to do with forums. How many times has Phil Jones been booed off the pitch for Utd? Mings would have been at least 5 times this season based on how atrocious people seem to think he's been and our crowds previous form for patience.

Away crowds are a different matter altogether. Ours are absolutely fantastic and offer the unconditional support we could only dream of at home often out singing the home crowd all match.

Maybe we aren't as bad on social media as other fans due to there being less of us to dish out the abuse, but let's not forget abuse by Villa fans forced one of our players to close down their social media accounts just a matter of months ago.

Phil Jones has been booed and laughed off the pitch plenty of times at Manure to the point that's his confidence is absolutely shattered, and what happens on social media carries onto the pitch.

Only natural that we see and put more weight on what happens at Villa Park but it's no different to most other grounds and fans. 

VT is a echo chamber just like Facebook and Villa Park for that matter but that goes for every club that has passionate fans.

If we have a bunch of players who thrive by not having fans in the stands then we are in trouble for next season and they are unlikely to go on to great things.

[DCJonah]

8 minutes ago, GingerCollins29 said:

Praised was the wrong word. Its more accepting it. Yeh we were poor snd lost but look at where we were is not progressive or ambitious. 

Accepting it is because this is football. When have you watched us and we haven't had poor performances during a season? It happens. 

Now if those performances make up the majority of what's going on then fair enough. But when they're the odd blip in what has been an excellent period so far, then of course its accepted more. No ones happy but to think these kind of performances won't happen is crazy IMO. 

[penguin]

8 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

I'm simply basing it on how quickly our fans start to abuse our players when they're playing badly compared with other clubs. Call it lazy analysis if you want, it's just my observation from watching football throughout my life. I've also met a lot of away fans who have the same opinion of us after going to VP.

Obviously no one is suggesting that every fan of particular teams are better/worse than others, but each home crowd tends to have its own personality and reacts to circumstances in a pretty consistent manner.

Not consistent with my personal experience but fair enough I can somewhat accept the "personality point" as it would make sense it terms of long term season ticket holders etc.

@KentVillan makes a good point in terms of perhaps a large proportion of us potentially holding the team to the expectations of the past. Although overall I do think the "negatives" of our fans are being largely exaggerated especially in comparison to fans of other sides.

[Zatman]

2 minutes ago, sne said:

Phil Jones has been booed and laughed off the pitch plenty of times at Manure to the point that's his confidence is absolutely shattered, and what happens on social media carries onto the pitch.

Only natural that we see and put more weight on what happens at Villa Park but it's no different to most other grounds and fans. 

VT is a echo chamber just like Facebook and Villa Park for that matter but that goes for every club that has passionate fans.

If we have a bunch of players who thrive by not having fans in the stands then we are in trouble for next season and they are unlikely to go on to great things.

Has he been booed off by his own fans? Opposition fans have laughed bit never booed him specifically

 

[GingerCollins29]

Just now, DCJonah said:

Accepting it is because this is football. When have you watched us and we haven't had poor performances during a season? It happens. 

Now if those performances make up the majority of what's going on then fair enough. But when they're the odd blip in what has been an excellent period so far, then of course its accepted more. No ones happy but to think these kind of performances won't happen is crazy IMO. 

Not sure when i've ever said poor performances dont happen.

What i've said is that our players were dreadful. If they are anywhere close to their peak we beat west ham.

In order to progress, we need to beat teams such as west ham, who were in a relegation battle with us last year.

I'm unhappy at the performance and i'm moaning about it.

I don't understand how any villa fan wouldn't see it the same way.

[Zatman]

I remember my last trip to Villa Park, guy next to me in his 60s/70s wanted the ball played out to the right so he could boo and abuse Hutton when he had the ball. 

We were winning

[Sam-AVFC]

1 minute ago, sne said:

Phil Jones has been booed and laughed off the pitch plenty of times at Manure to the point that's his confidence is absolutely shattered, and what happens on social media carries onto the pitch.

Huh, I can only find one incident.

3 minutes ago, sne said:

Only natural that we see and put more weight on what happens at Villa Park but it's no different to most other grounds and fans. 

Just to clarify again I am basing it on us compared to other clubs, not in isolation. I've gone to way more away games in recent years than home.

4 minutes ago, sne said:

If we have a bunch of players who thrive by not having fans in the stands then we are in trouble for next season and they are unlikely to go on to great things.

Agreed. You only have to look at how awful our home form was last year compared to this. Not like it's a new thing either.

[KentVillan]

Manure don't boo players off the pitch because Old Trafford is mostly tourists and prawn sandwich brigade

[sne]

1 minute ago, Zatman said:

Has he been booed off by his own fans? Opposition fans have laughed bit never booed him specifically

 

I believe so yes. It's gotten to the point to where he declined the declined his 10 year tribute match at Man U because in his own words: Only my mother and father had turned up.

[penguin]

2 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I remember my last trip to Villa Park, guy next to me in his 60s/70s wanted the ball played out to the right so he could boo and abuse Hutton when he had the ball. 

We were winning

Can just imagine this guy booing him the whole way 

 

 

 

[Villa 59]

18 minutes ago, Zatman said:

I remember my last trip to Villa Park, guy next to me in his 60s/70s wanted the ball played out to the right so he could boo and abuse Hutton when he had the ball. 

We were winning

Wow...that's pathetic in the extreme

[nick76]

47 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

I think Smith often takes the plaudits for keeping us up, and for what we have done this season, but I think that ignores the fact that he's been heavily backed.

 

Yes he's had to build a team and that's not an easy thing to do, but I tell you it's far easier to do it when you've got fabulous owners like ours who have invested very heavily in the playing squad and backed him in pretty much every window (FFP exempting). 

 

He was also given time when we were struggling badly last season which most managers wouldn't get given given the amount of money spent and was allowed to recruit key men like Shakespeare this summer who have helped massively on and off the pitch.

 

This season he has generally done a very good job and on the whole we've played attacking football and been great to watch, but there are still many things he can improve on if he's to push us on to that next level. 

I can’t believe you have written this.  

I’m sorry but I think you need a reality check.

I was going to write a response but I deleted what I started to write because if you think this then I’m not sure anything I say that you will agree with.