Dean Smith

[rodders0223]

3 hours ago, KHV said:

It’s the lack of being able to do the basics that’s staggering with Smith

There is no pattern of play, the midfield changes every week

Also selling our only striker when we have no replacements is baffling

Throwing Drinkwater in when he is clearly miles off the pace is a mind boggling decision

The constant fannying about trying to play out from our own 18 yard line when we clearly are not capable is suicidal

Not making changes quickly enough when other teams make changes and we are being pushed back is annoying. 
 

Smith doesn’t help himself at all at times

I think it is very clear the coaching is not up to scratch. I saw Lambert and Mcleish sides more fluid than this one. Static turgid and bereft of any movement or gameplan to me.

[Danishlad]

Im not disappionted with Smith at all. I knew we would be near the bottom of the table. We still have Taylor and Elmo in and around the team ffs.

We had to buy many players, we used alot of money but the players themselves they were cheap, unknown to English football. Young too. I think we are doing well. We will stay up, there are three worse teams than us.

Also i liked the way we set up against Brighton. They didn’t create many problems for us. We looked good defensively. However when we had the ball we looked seriosly short on confidence. Especially in the first half, but the second was better. We played with more belief.

I think signing Drinkwater was a good gamble too. Though he hasnt played well. But a good gamble cause we got a 28 year old league winner who cost 40 mill two season ago for nothing. We need his experience. If it doesnt work out - we send him back. The performances of Nakamba and Luiz have been inconsistant, and the McGinn injury, made that signing neccessary. 

Cause we loaned DD it means we still have  money for a striker. On this issue , i think signing two strikers is easy. There are loads of them. But it is taking time cause they want to get the right player on the right contract. That is the hard part. Patience is needed on that.

All in all , i think the fans also need a reality check. We are in for a fight to stay up. Get behind the team, the coach and enjoy the games. The team and club has come a long way in the last year. Enjoy it.

Edited January 19, 2020 by Danishlad

[TRO]

3 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

You are just presenting your opinion of Smith which is fair enough and I don't see it as anymore than that. 

I think we all agree what the issues are it is just the mitigating circumstances where opinions differ. Individuals expectations at the start of the season will obviously also influence how they are reacting to where we find ourselves now.

Fine, but all I have said is my feelings are mixed.

Yes , I guess it is, I appreciate we all see the games differently and varying levels of frustration are apportioned from fan to fan accordingly.

My expectation, is confined to the pitch, not the league table.....I was expecting more of our players to be applying the basics as I have illustrated in previous posts....that's my main concern.

All I was ever hoping for this season, and still is my hope, is to stay up.

[TRO]

17 minutes ago, Danishlad said:

Im not disappionted with Smith at all. I knew we would be near the bottom of the table. We still have Taylor and Elmo in and around the team ffs.

We had to buy many players, we used alot of money but the players themselves they were cheap, unknown to English football. Young too. I think we are doing well. We will stay up, there are three worse teams than us.

Also i liked the way we set up against Brighton. They didn’t create many problems for us. We looked good defensively. However when we had the ball we looked seriosly short on confidence. Especially in the first half, but the second was better. 

I think signing Drinkwater was a good gamble too. Though he hasnt played well. But a good gamble cause we got a 28 year old league winner who cost 40 mill two season ago for nothing. We need his experience. If it doesnt work out - we send him back. The performances of Nakamba and Luiz have been inconsistant, and the McGinn injury, made that signing neccessary. 

Cause we loaned DD it means we still have  money for a striker. On this issue , i think signing two strikers is easy. There are loads of them. But it is taking time cause they want to get the right player on the right contract. That is the hard part. Patience is needed on that.

All in all , i think the fans also need a reality check. We are in for a fight to stay up. Get behind the team, the coach and enjoy the games. The team and club has come a long way in the last year. Enjoy it.

Honestly, I am not trying to be difficult....but can confidence alter/change that quickly from half to half?

I would be more inclined to lean towards desire and workrate changed and a rollicking from Dean Smith.

Edited January 19, 2020 by TRO

[sne]

Were 2 teams playing yesterday, Brighton are also suffering from a lack of confidence. You could clearly see how they got more and more nervous as the second half went on and invited us into the game.

They've dropped a lot of points in the second half, just like us you can see why. They also made a defensive sub with Montoya for Connolly that made them lose their form.

I really like Potter but they have issues of their own.

We looked so much better when we didn't have to carry Drinkwater so hopefully he'll not start next time.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

I doubt being set up to be hard to beat will ever become a habit under Smith. There will always be a part of him that wants to go out and attack regardless of opposition. He went more defensive against Man City and we all saw what happened. 

I found it a breath of fresh air when he came in last season as it was in stark contrast to what we had been dished up before. Taking that into the Premier League though was always going to be tough, especially with so many new players, and so it is proving. He is now obviously also being hugely hampered by having no striker. I think it is a real shame that having changed formation we couldn't take we saw against Burnley forward and continued to play the 3-4-3 we did that day. I think if we can get back to that with a natural striker we can do well enough with it to stay up.

If we can bring in the 2 or 3 players we desperately need I think we will revert back to Smiths more natural philosophy of front foot attacking football. I also think that philosophy in the long run will reap us more rewards alongside many of the signings we have made realising their potential. 

Interesting, I see where we differ.

I don't look at set up i.e 5-4-1 as the answer, only part answer.....its what the players do that is key.....against Man city we just stood off and failed to challenge them, in contrast Crystal Palace (no reputed park the bus team) was more organised and made themselves hard to beat, they made Man City work for anything they got as opposed to us the previous week handing it on a plate....Man city did not look the invincible force yesterday, they did against us.....i.e " All teams are good, if you let them be"

as an example :

You can't go out living it up, if you haven't got the bills paid, with out consequences......I think Dean may have it the wrong way round.....remember those famous Shankly words " you have to win the right to play football" Chris Wilder and our Own Ron Saunders, even John Gregory....they got all that.

We are too open and we will suffer the consequences.

I see little signs Dean is learning, Drinkwater, would be the right type if he had any form, which is something, Nzonzi, would be a coup for me.....but that's the style we need in midfield, to let Jack and John McGinn (when fit) fly their Kites.

I think Dean does know, the sort of thing I am suggesting, its just he is stuck with the players he has ( many not geared to battle, bearing in mind not every game, but too many for comfort)and his dogma of attacking football at all costs....2 wingers is a luxury, we can't afford right now.

No one appreciates Attacking, exciting football more than me, but I equally appreciate that you have to have the ball to do it....The better the team is less likely to give it away, so you have to have players comfortable and skilled at winning it.....I don't think we currently have, interceptions maybe, but hard nosed ball winning no.

I know all these things are not easy ,Mark and maybe if your right, that we will never be "hard to beat" under Dean Smith, then he will never fulfill me.

 

Edited January 19, 2020 by TRO

[Delphinho123]

1 hour ago, rodders0223 said:

I think it is very clear the coaching is not up to scratch. I saw Lambert and Mcleish sides more fluid than this one. Static turgid and bereft of any movement or gameplan to me.

You can put lipstick on a pig but it’s still a pig. 
These players aren’t good enough Rodders. I don’t think there is any amount of coaching that would make Trezeguet, Nakamba and Targett better.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, rodders0223 said:

I think it is very clear the coaching is not up to scratch. I saw Lambert and Mcleish sides more fluid than this one. Static turgid and bereft of any movement or gameplan to me.

Unless we see the coaching its hard to comment accurate & fairly

I think the focus is maybe misplaced...just my suspicion.

Edited January 19, 2020 by TRO

[sne]

5 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

You can put lipstick on a pig but it’s still a pig. 
These players aren’t good enough Rodders. I don’t think there is any amount of coaching that would make Trezeguet, Nakamba and Targett better.

Nakamba I actually think could get a lot better with a bit of coaching.

He needs to be smarter in possession, more aware of his surroundings when he gets the ball and release it quicker when under pressure.

All things that should be coachable.

 

[TRO]

18 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

You can put lipstick on a pig but it’s still a pig. 
These players aren’t good enough Rodders. I don’t think there is any amount of coaching that would make Trezeguet, Nakamba and Targett better.

I think you have a point and its an age old chesnut, is it the players or the manager or both.

I didn't see the game yesterday, but the comments on here in the first half was X rated......where did they find their character from to compete?

If I was purely guessing I would say Jack is working morning, noon and night, on his personal game.......I would guess some of the others do the bare minimum and go home.

I could be wrong of course.

Edited January 19, 2020 by TRO

[Graham t]

10 minutes ago, sne said:

Nakamba I actually think could get a lot better with a bit of coaching.

He needs to be smarter in possession, more aware of his surroundings when he gets the ball and release it quicker when under pressure.

All things that should be coachable.

 

I ám not sure that all players could be 'coached' . From personal experience as a centre forward I would explain to my team- mates exactly when and where I wanted the ball prior to games. Frankly some could do it and some couldn't no matter how many times you told them. This was at a level where the players were getting 'expencies' , ( semi pro ).

[Pimlico_Villa]

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think you have a point and its an age old chesnut, is it the players or the manager or both.

I didn't see the game yesterday, but the comments on here in the first half was X rated......where did they find their character from to compete?

If I was purely guessing I would say Jack is working morning, noon and night, on his personal game.......I would guess some of the others do the bare minimum and go home.

I could be wrong of course.

I think that is true, especially on the physical side of things. I can’t picture Targett doing anything above the minimum - just look at how overweight and out of shape he is. So slow as well.

CH is another one. No physicality 

Edited January 19, 2020 by Pimlico_Villa

[hippo]

I wonder if the "we got promoted a year early" will save Smith - with the owners expecting a swift return should we go down.....and better next time we are promoted ?

[sne]

2 minutes ago, Graham t said:

I ám not sure that all players could be 'coached' . From personal experience as a centre forward I would explain to my team- mates exactly when and where I wanted the ball prior to games. Frankly some could do it and some couldn't no matter how many times you told them. This was at a level where the players were getting 'expencies' , ( semi pro ).

I don't think that either, but I think Nakamba could

[hippo]

17 minutes ago, sne said:

Nakamba I actually think could get a lot better with a bit of coaching.

He needs to be smarter in possession, more aware of his surroundings when he gets the ball and release it quicker when under pressure.

All things that should be coachable.

 

What are you seeing in Nakamba over say Lansbury, O Hare, Doyle Hayes - who may all get better with a bit of coaching.

Touch and go Nakamba would cut it in the championship TBH.

[TRO]

12 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

You are just presenting your opinion of Smith which is fair enough and I don't see it as anymore than that. 

I think we all agree what the issues are it is just the mitigating circumstances where opinions differ. Individuals expectations at the start of the season will obviously also influence how they are reacting to where we find ourselves now.

Mark, No one respects your opinions more than me.....I have commented on them favourably,is my testimonial.

I don't think in many cases that's true, it will be with some, no doubt.....but,I think,its more to do with fans watching the game and analysing player performances and many cases see no improvement.....the same flaws week in week out.....maybe they are just not good enough and beyond development, I can't say for sure.....but I am confident, the evidence is there..... who is to blame, is anyone's guess.

as a contrast, I watched Jack with equal interest and his game has improved on almost a game to game basis ......such is the stark contrast. His progress is incremental, maybe he wants it more.

I worry, sometimes that maybe, its just too easy to be a **** player at Villa....just speculating.

Edited January 20, 2020 by TRO

[sne]

Just now, hippo said:

What are you seeing in Nakamba over say Lansbury, O Hare, Doyle Hayes - who may all get better with a bit of coaching.

Touch and go Nakamba would cut it in the championship TBH.

I think he's an almost really good player.

When you look at the stats he's leading the team on both tackles and passing % most games. But when you watch him play looks like he's just a bit too slow to move the ball on puts himself and his teammates under pressure.

He needs to think one step ahead and also get forward with more urgency when he wins the ball

Lansbury is simply too slow, he just is. Not seen enough of O'Hare or Doyle Hayes to make any judgement on them.

[TRO]

16 minutes ago, Pimlico_Villa said:

I think that is true, especially on the physical side of things. I can’t picture Targett doing anything above the minimum - just look at how overweight and out of shape he is. So slow as well.

CH is another one. No physicality 

I know for a fact....if Saunders had players like that he would blank them....wouldn't speak to them for weeks on end, That was his way, He made it clear, you want his favour, you knew what you had to do...his inner circle was grafters and a winning mentality, he made it clear ..Eventually the free loaders were the minority and the workaholics the majority, that's how incrementally he morphed it.....and when new players came in, they came in to a working machine, which helped them.

.....I know that will attract mixed views, just saying, but he didn't do too bad did he?

Times have changed I know, but the pendulum can swing too far the other way and I think it has.

We have to as an entity get tough on poor performance to progress.

When I watch Liverpool or Man city, 2 of the most talented teams around ......the graft they put in offensively & defensively is clear as a bell....the physicality is applied in every game.....if a team was entitled to slack off its them.

Edited January 19, 2020 by TRO

[Pimlico_Villa]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

I know for a fact....if Saunders had players like that he would blank them....wouldn't speak to them for weeks on end.....I know that will attract mixed views, just saying, but he didn't do to bad did he?

Times have changed I know, but the pendulum can swing too far the other way and I think it has.

We have to as an entity get tough on poor performance to progress.

Players being as fit as is possible should be an absolute minimum. 

[TRO]

1 minute ago, Pimlico_Villa said:

Players being as fit as is possible should be an absolute minimum. 

Fundamental IMO