Awol Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Is there really much difference in that and knowingly killing civilians who are going to be right next to (or in front of or wherever) the military targets chosen? Each, in its own way, is an inexcusable (though perhaps, at a stretch, understandable) action, isn't it? Hammas fire rockets at Israel to try and kill civilians. Israel targets the Hammas militants and (very sadly) there are also civilian casualties because Hammas deliberately fires from schools, mosques, next to hospitals, etc. However you cut it up that is not the same thing. If Hammas were not plastering southern Israel with rocket fire the Israelis would not be responding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I think it is pretty pointless picking a side in this war. Neither side comes out with any sort of credibility after 50+ years of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 (edited) However you cut it up that is not the same thing. I didn't say they were the same thing. I asked whether there was that much difference. There isn't that much difference for those civilians on each side who find themselves dead at the hands of people on the other side firing at them. They are still dead regardless of whether or not a military target has been 'eliminated' with them. ...(very sadly)... If you are suggesting that there are any tears shed on the Israeli side (by those actually involved in the action rather than the general populace) for civilians who die in Gaza then I think that's probably as likely as there being any tears shed by those firing missiles from Gaza, i.e. very unlikely. Edited November 15, 2012 by snowychap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 ...he cannot, under any circumstances, can be considered as neutral spectator... If one were to attempt to limit oneself to neutral spectators, I'd take a punt that there'd be very little to hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Gas the Arabs. Discussion of Israeli attitudes towards the people whose land they occupy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Hammas fire rockets at Israel to try and kill civilians. Israel targets the Hammas militants and (very sadly) there are also civilian casualties because Hammas deliberately fires from schools, mosques, next to hospitals, etc. However you cut it up that is not the same thing. If Hammas were not plastering southern Israel with rocket fire the Israelis would not be responding. And of course, if Israel hadnt forced Hamas off of their land and claimed it as southern Israel in the first place then Hamas would have no cause to fire rockets. Its ****. Its unsolvable and judging by the weight of support for Palestine in this thread the Israeli PR machine isnt as effective as it once was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Egypt has apparently closed the Israeli border, closed the Suez Canal to Israeli ships, and is sending a medical mission to Gaza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omariqy Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I know a couple of good charities that do good work for Palestine, if anyone is interested. PM me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Israel now reported to be cutting off electric, internet, mobile while they invade. Don't want the world to see what they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glarmorgan Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Israel now reported to be cutting off electric, internet, mobile while they invade. Don't want the world to see what they do. These reports are incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glarmorgan Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 If one were to attempt to limit oneself to neutral spectators, I'd take a punt that there'd be very little to hear. True, but at the same time - limiting yourself to hear or read only a specific point of view - might create ignorance. I reckon you will not have that much time to read the words of Avigdor Liebermann or any other Israeli right wing people. When you hear of the "siege" of Gaza and when you hear how Israel "forced" the Hammas from "Southern Israel" - you know ignorance is at the helm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCforever1991 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 What is the Israeli Death toll compared to the Palestinian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 These reports are incorrect. The IDF is saying different things within minutes. The difference seems to be about whether the invasion has begun yet, or is only in preparation. Leibovitch said: We are not beginning any ground operation as for now, but it is an option. Other options still exist. We do have from time to time operational assessments and then we'll decide of the next steps. She was asked what would be the trigger for a ground operation – a rocket landing in Tel Aviv? This is one possibility, of course. We do not want to be in this situation but it is possible ... but it can be other things as well. We are as a military prepared for many types of scenarios. She "recommended" to Hamas it halt its rocket fire. Were the two sides talking at all? She refused to answer. 14m ago Updated 12m ago No ground troops being sent at present Avital Leibovitch, the Israeli military spokeswoman, has denied ground troops are being sent to the south at the moment. She is being interviewed by CNN at the moment. "We do have some ground troops on alert," but they are not being sent to Gaza at present. 17m ago 'Ground troops' Jake Beckman of Bloomberg TV tweets that he has seen an Israeli army spokesman confirm on Israeli TV that "Israel is sending ground troops to the south". We are unable to confirm that at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Israel reported to be again targetting paramedics in ambulances, as they did in 2008/9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 True, but at the same time - limiting yourself to hear or read only a specific point of view - might create ignorance. No, it is likely to create a limited (and distorted) picture of the truth. It may well help people get a fuller picture of the truth to take in as many viewpoints and sources as possible; that should not be seen as an opportunity for one side to pooh-pooh the other, imply that their own version is the only one with any level of veracity and thereby claim that this brings balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Israel reported to be again targetting paramedics in ambulances, as they did in 2008/9. No no, Israel simply do not target innocents, only terrorists, if they are targeting paramedics it simply must be because there is a Hamas base hidden inside the ambulance. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 I reckon you will not have that much time to read the words of Avigdor Liebermann... Is that you recommending him and his policies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 What is the Israeli Death toll compared to the Palestinian? Difficult to find unbiased figures, both sides have motivation to skew them one way or the other but the common consensus seems to be that for every Israeli killed between 8-10 Palestinians die. Now I think it is important to state that having more money and better weapons doesn't automatically make Israel the bad guy. How they push Palestinians around with those resources is another matter entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted November 15, 2012 Share Posted November 15, 2012 Glammy, Neither side is right, don't get a persecution complex. I don't think there are many on here that have pre conceived ideas of who is good and who is evil. In reality, both exist on all sides. But I would be interested in whether you believe killing a few more will lead to a quicker resolution of the problem. If so, roughly how many? Just a few nutters at the top? Or maybe a few dozen run of the mill fighters? Or perhaps a few villages of mixed odds n sods of fighters and school kids? If there is a death toll total you think will swing this for Israel, is there a similar number of Israelis that the arabs need to kill to win the arguement? What if they kill another dozen? hundred? thousand? No, there is no death toll that will resolve this. So that makes it utterly **** futile murder by both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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