Next Aston Villa Manager

[TRO]

30 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

I do agree with the above TRO. The problem is that we don't stick to a plan. The other problem, which you have correctly identified, is that we loose control during games. To me that is because other managers react as the game progresses, making changes where they see fit, but SB doesn't seem to do that, or at least not very quickly. Your last line is probably the biggest problem of all. 

We can't stick to the plan....we are being outfought.

How often do you see SB screaming at them and then holding his head down....they are being beaten.

This is where i slightly see it different....i see the opposition beating us.

not being outwitted by the other manager......being out fought and played by the other team.

hence his continued activity in the transfer market.

Edited September 3, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

15 minutes ago, Zatman said:

after nearly a year in charge if he is telling players to play a way he wants and they arent then he should be sacked on the spot

In that time he has tried to arrest what could have been a drop in to the Div 1 and he did it.

In an effort to turn around a team that recorded a totally miserable 3 wins in a whole season and you talk about a year in charge.....its took that long to get some kind of sense in the place.

we have had a quantity of an influx of players he had barely got to know their names.

be reasonable if nothing else.

Edited September 3, 2017 by TRO

[Zatman]

Just now, TRO said:

In that time he has tried to arrest what could have been a drop in to the Div 1 and he did it.

In an effort to turn around a team that recorded a totally miserable 3 wins in a whole season and you talk about a year in charge.....its took that long to get some kind of sense in the place.

we have had a quantity of an influx of players he had barely got to know their names.

be reasonable.

thats all fair enough if he had shown any signs that he was taking us forward or we were going in the right direction and he hasnt.

We are no better off in terms of style of play or future planning than we were this time last season 

[TRO]

1 minute ago, Zatman said:

thats all fair enough if he had shown any signs that he was taking us forward or we were going in the right direction and he hasnt.

We are no better off in terms of style of play or future planning than we were this time last season 

I understand that point.

but his time has been a bit stop start, with new signings, kids coming of age and losing arguably your best 2 players  .......spookily at key moments in his tenure.

He might not make it, but i think his time has been a bit disruptive if I'm being honest.

I accept that a smooth cohesive style of play has so far alluded us.....that cannot be denied....its whether anyone wants, feels a need to apply a air of mitigation to the whole thing.

I do.

[Mjvilla]

43 minutes ago, TRO said:

We can't stick to the plan....we are being outfought.

How often do you see SB screaming at them and then holding his head down....they are being beaten.

This is where i slightly see it different....i see the opposition beating us.

not being outwitted by the other manager......being out fought and played by the other team.

hence his continued activity in the transfer market.

Hence the Whelan, Terry signings of battle hardened players. Not players to get excites by, but players that have been there and done that.

Wether right or wrong remains to be seen.

[Demitri_C]

I think its safe to say if bruce does not deliver victories by end of month and we are not close to play off positions he will br removed from post. That warning from xia kind of confirms that.

No more excuses you have been backed, you have the players in place now it is time to start delivering.

[Eastie]

9 hours ago, TRO said:

In that time he has tried to arrest what could have been a drop in to the Div 1 and he did it.

In an effort to turn around a team that recorded a totally miserable 3 wins in a whole season and you talk about a year in charge.....its took that long to get some kind of sense in the place.

we have had a quantity of an influx of players he had barely got to know their names.

be reasonable if nothing else.

Not sure that's how he himself would even spin it , your comment suggest he succeeded in keeping us up last season but he himself admitted on the day he arrived the aim was still t get promoted last season - staying up was not succeeding - I'd suggest to finish 13th with that squad was pretty poor to be honest . 

Bruce set his sights on going up last season when he arrived and certainly last Christmas I'd have backed him to achieve it . 

[Eastie]

3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

I think its safe to say if bruce does not deliver victories by end of month and we are not close to play off positions he will br removed from post. That warning from xia kind of confirms that.

No more excuses you have been backed, you have the players in place now it is time to start delivering.

No doubt whatsoever about that - the question is how many points out of the 18 he needs to get to save his job ? 

Surely at least 12 as a minimum ? 

[Demitri_C]

3 minutes ago, Eastie said:

No doubt whatsoever about that - the question is how many points out of the 18 he needs to get to save his job ? 

Surely at least 12 as a minimum ? 

I would say so. The boro gamw i might expect us ti drop points but we should be getting a decent return from the rest

[striker]

12 hours ago, TRO said:

In that time he has tried to arrest what could have been a drop in to the Div 1 and he did it.

 

The expectations from fans and board alike last season were promotion were they not Tro and when it became apparent that it wasn't achievable only then did Xia change the goalposts slightly for stability.

However I haven't seen it stated anywhere that averting a slide into Division One was seen as an achievement by anyone other than yourself now. In fact you seem to be grasping onto the last bastions of excuses for a manager who clearly, so far, has failed to achieve not only the expectations of promotion last season but a coherent team this season with the much lorded pre-season and DM that was going to allow Villa's offensive players to play.

[Eastie]

17 minutes ago, striker said:

The expectations from fans and board alike last season were promotion were they not Tro and when it became apparent that it wasn't achievable only then did Xia change the goalposts slightly for stability.

However I haven't seen it stated anywhere that averting a slide into Division One was seen as an achievement by anyone other than yourself now. In fact you seem to be grasping onto the last bastions of excuses for a manager who clearly, so far, has failed to achieve not only the expectations of promotion last season but a coherent team this season with the much lorded pre-season and DM that was going to allow Villa's offensive players to play.

Indeed , Bruce himself stated promotion was still the target last season on the day he arrived .

[TRO]

15 hours ago, Mjvilla said:

Hence the Whelan, Terry signings of battle hardened players. Not players to get excites by, but players that have been there and done that.

Wether right or wrong remains to be seen.

I think the thought process was.....we have those players that can excite.....but they are preoccupied by the physical side of the game, so he bought players to relieve them of that duty.

whether that works is another thing....as you say, we will see.

[TRO]

6 hours ago, Eastie said:

Not sure that's how he himself would even spin it , your comment suggest he succeeded in keeping us up last season but he himself admitted on the day he arrived the aim was still t get promoted last season - staying up was not succeeding - I'd suggest to finish 13th with that squad was pretty poor to be honest . 

Bruce set his sights on going up last season when he arrived and certainly last Christmas I'd have backed him to achieve it . 

I'm not suggesting that he set his sights on just staying up....I'm just saying thats where we were heading when he took over.

He has to say, that promotion is our aim, because a club like ours will accept nothing else.

I am just saying I think to expect to go up last season was a big ask on the back of so much disruption.....just my call......It always was a sanitation season for me, getting ready for this season.

[TRO]

3 hours ago, striker said:

The expectations from fans and board alike last season were promotion were they not Tro and when it became apparent that it wasn't achievable only then did Xia change the goalposts slightly for stability.

However I haven't seen it stated anywhere that averting a slide into Division One was seen as an achievement by anyone other than yourself now. In fact you seem to be grasping onto the last bastions of excuses for a manager who clearly, so far, has failed to achieve not only the expectations of promotion last season but a coherent team this season with the much lorded pre-season and DM that was going to allow Villa's offensive players to play.

I was dealing in facts not expectations.

• We was heading for Division 1 and the manager in charge who has a decent CV could not arrest the demise.....Steve Bruce Did.....that is not an opinion its a fact and whether you want to give him credit for that is up to you, but I was beginning to think no one could arrest this slide, that was my opinion at the time.....and for me, I am grateful to him.
• I do not remember a realistic shout for us to get promotion, I think it was an ambitious hope that we MIGHT nick a top 6 place.....with all the disruption of injuries and new players, i think that was a monumental ask...you need a prepared team to mount a realistic challenge.....but it is amazing when a few wins arrive how the expectation rises at a much faster rate.
• I seem to remember more folk than me declaring their relief at us stopping up.....don't let ambition allow you to tun your nose up at small mercies.
• Your last line is reasonable, but we are only 5 games in and lost 2 away....if we are in the same position at the end of Septemeber I will be a lot less supportive.

I am not saying your wrong in what you are witnessing....I am just saying give it a little longer before we condemn.

[Eastie]

30 minutes ago, TRO said:

I'm not suggesting that he set his sights on just staying up....I'm just saying thats where we were heading when he took over.

He has to say, that promotion is our aim, because a club like ours will accept nothing else.

I am just saying I think to expect to go up last season was a big ask on the back of so much disruption.....just my call......It always was a sanitation season for me, getting ready for this season.

Agreed it was a big ask but it was achievable and credit to him that we were in 7th place on Dec 28th - there is no excuse for finishing 13th from there . 

[vreitti]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

I was dealing in facts not expectations.

• We was heading for Division 1 and the manager in charge who has a decent CV could not arrest the demise.....Steve Bruce Did.....that is not an opinion its a fact and whether you want to give him credit for that is up to you, but I was beginning to think no one could arrest this slide, that was my opinion at the time.....and for me, I am grateful to him.

For once I totally agree. We was in deep shit at the time. I still think RDM could have turned it around, but Bruce came in and did just that, initially. Problem is he hasn't been able to continue in the same vein. We have gradually slid back to nothingness, with no real progress made 8 months after. 

I do remember us starting last season with a clear expectation & sole goal of promotion. This was of course at the start of the season, not necessarily after the dismissal of RDM. 

It's true we are only 5 games in, and if we didn't already have 40+ games under Bruce, I'd also be asking for more time. But given what we KNOW for a FACT, it's time for a change, IMHO. Bruce will not change approach. Anyone thinking otherwise are merely hoping. There isn't any evidence to support such a notion, unfortunately.

The September fixtures look easy to me, given the squad at disposal. I still foresee mixed results, but probably enough points that will see Bruce surviving the month. By the end of November we will be way of promotion form, and then it will be too late to make the change. 

My only hope is that the good Dr. has already made a tentative approach for someone, and that Bruce will now be judged on a game to game basis.

[villan_007]

4 hours ago, Eastie said:

Indeed , Bruce himself stated promotion was still the target last season on the day he arrived .

He did. Yet I think it was barely a month after that, that Bruce and the board truly realised just how broken the club was.

The magic money wand alone wasn't enough.

I think it's held us back up to even now. I see and agree with most of the reasons for moving bruce on. Yet due to the lerner decay, the amount needed to be fixed, if we just hold on a little longer we could just have permanently turned the corner for the better.

[striker]

40 minutes ago, TRO said:

I was dealing in facts not expectations.

• We was heading for Division 1 and the manager in charge who has a decent CV could not arrest the demise.....Steve Bruce Did.....that is not an opinion its a fact and whether you want to give him credit for that is up to you, but I was beginning to think no one could arrest this slide, that was my opinion at the time.....and for me, I am grateful to him.
• I do not remember a realistic shout for us to get promotion, I think it was an ambitious hope that we MIGHT nick a top 6 place.....with all the disruption of injuries and new players, i think that was a monumental ask...you need a prepared team to mount a realistic challenge.....but it is amazing when a few wins arrive how the expectation rises at a much faster rate.
• I seem to remember more folk than me declaring their relief at us stopping up.....don't let ambition allow you to tun your nose up at small mercies.
• Your last line is reasonable, but we are only 5 games in and lost 2 away....if we are in the same position at the end of Septemeber I will be a lot less supportive.

I am not saying your wrong in what you are witnessing....I am just saying give it a little longer before we condemn.

Yeah mate more than fair reply but I can't feel grateful to him because Villa finished 13th with the players and funding available to him last season.

No matter what we all think Tro Xia looks to be giving him until the end of September which will be in and around the cut off point for me.

Bruce has imo the best squad in the Championship by far so if Villa don't start racking up the points over the next month then Bruce can have no complaints.

[rubberman]

55 minutes ago, vreitti said:

The September fixtures look easy to me, given the squad at disposal. I still foresee mixed results, but probably enough points that will see Bruce surviving the month. By the end of November we will be way of promotion form, and then it will be too late to make the change. 

My only hope is that the good Dr. has already made a tentative approach for someone, and that Bruce will now be judged on a game to game basis.

This.  My worry is that we will limp along, getting enough results to keep Steve in the job, but not enough to properly mount a top 2 challenge.  eg from September we'll get 10-12 points, leaving us on 15-17 from 11 and maybe around the top 8?  Not going to be enough.

[villabromsgrove]

I expect to win matches, I expect to lose matches, I expect to draw matches, but I can't tell you which ones (and five of the next six matches should be fairly predictable) because I don't know how we will set up and how negatively we may play. I'm guessing that away matches will still be tight fearful squeaky bum affairs.

Looking at the next six fixtures, my expectations should be different, but they're not. That's why I've already made up my mind that Bruce has to go. 

We must replace him with a manager who has a plan, and the tactical ability to carry out that plan.

I don't know who it will be, but I do know that it must not be a Moyes, Big Sam, Pardew "proven experience" type appointment.

No more looking back!

We have to go for a Jokanovic, Wagner, Clotet, tactically astute head coach/manager who can fully utilise our excellent squad.