snowychap Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Maybe we ought to address the idea that home ownership is such a target? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 10 hours ago, mjmooney said: See, I don't get this Four Yorkshiremen 'we had it rough' routine from anybody around my age. My wife and I both came from working class families, and did *massively* better than our parents. Why? NHS health care from birth, free education up to and including university, inspirational teachers not tied to box-ticking, well remunerated jobs, protected by trades unions, good company pension schemes - and a belief that we were worth something (unlike our prewar parents who had been basically treated as serfs). We rented for a couple of years and then were able to get a 97% mortgage on a £20,000 four-bedroomed house. We sold that for £95,000 after 13 years, and bought our current 5-bed semi for £112,000. It's currently worth about £400,000. By contrast, our kids (just as intellectually capable as we were) got stressed out at school and university to get qualifications that mean naff all, with student loan debts hanging over them. They've spent years being treated like serfs (sound familiar?) in mcjobs, can't save, can't get a mortgage. I didn't have it hard, I had it piss easy compared to them. And that's why I'm a socialist, for the sake of the next generation, not mine. I think you were exceptionally fortunate. Council flat, only child, so you didn't have to compete for resources with siblings, doting parents who saw you as a blessing and had high aspirations for you, grammar school which enabled your upward mobility, free university and a grant when very few working-class kids got the chance, no pressure to do a vocational degree and a secure job in the public sector. When you went to university (1970s?) only 8% of children enjoyed that privilege, under New Labour the target was 50%. Even in the 1980s getting a degree transformed people's chances of upward mobility and gave entry into the professions. Competition for decent jobs was less. As competition has increased the middle-classes have relied more and more upon independent schools and their social capital. You are right, you had it really bloody good, our kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted June 18, 2017 Author VT Supporter Share Posted June 18, 2017 7 hours ago, MakemineVanilla said: I think you were exceptionally fortunate. Council flat, only child, so you didn't have to compete for resources with siblings, doting parents who saw you as a blessing and had high aspirations for you, grammar school which enabled your upward mobility, free university and a grant when very few working-class kids got the chance, no pressure to do a vocational degree and a secure job in the public sector. When you went to university (1970s?) only 8% of children enjoyed that privilege, under New Labour the target was 50%. Even in the 1980s getting a degree transformed people's chances of upward mobility and gave entry into the professions. Competition for decent jobs was less. As competition has increased the middle-classes have relied more and more upon independent schools and their social capital. You are right, you had it really bloody good, our kid. Yes. All absolutely true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 There goes our greenbelt Do we really need more houses?? Just make houses more affordable I bet there are alot of new builds that are either empty or bought by stupid rich people who buy them and rent them out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 11, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: Do we really need more houses?? Just make houses more affordable Yes and more houses is what makes houses more affordable 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonesy7211 Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 I think the best bit about committing to building so many more houses was that Keir promised new towns. I'm not a nimby, but all new houses built under Tory rule have been hitting communities terribly. The new builds are being built in towns and cities where local services are already decimated. GP's, hospitals, schools etc haven't been able to cope with the influx of greater numbers of people. There's been no investment in them. New towns means new services and a reduction in numbers using existing services. I'm willing to give up some greenbelt for that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: There goes our greenbelt Do we really need more houses?? Just make houses more affordable I bet there are alot of new builds that are either empty or bought by stupid rich people who buy them and rent them out Will you be selling your house under market value to help someone out when you come to sell? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 Worth noting that the green belt isn’t necessarily land of any particular quality, its just land with no, or low density building on it, adjacent to built up areas. Also worth noting that the size of the green belt has more than doubled in recent history. In 1979 it was 722,000 hectares. By 2019 it was 1,640,000 hectares. If just 10% of the green belt just around London was used for house building, that would free up space for 160,000 houses. Who buys those houses is easily controlled by local authorities if they want to. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 11, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 11, 2023 1 hour ago, cheltenham_villa said: I dont personally believe the narrative that the central government would encourage fraud by their friends, i do believe incompetence may enable them to be exploited. Government incompetence encouraged fraud. Encouragement doesn't need to be explicit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, Jonesy7211 said: The new builds are being built in towns and cities where local services are already decimated. GP's, hospitals, schools etc haven't been able to cope with the influx of greater numbers of people. There's been no investment in them. There should be an inquiry into where all the money the builders have to pay is going. When we bought ours there was a huge list of things the builder was paying for, on top of the cost of the land. The total for our site alone was several million towards doctors, dentists, sports facilities, hospitals, local schools, roads. Several pages of it. All that money has gone and not been spent on its intended use. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jareth Posted October 11, 2023 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted October 11, 2023 Build on golf courses! Golf’s shit 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 3 minutes ago, Jareth said: Build on golf courses! Golf’s shit My house was built on a golf course 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 2 minutes ago, Jareth said: Build on golf courses! Golf’s shit It’s a fair point, golf courses are wildlife wastelands. I reckon a housing estate with some wild flower meadow amenity parkland would massively increase the biodiversity of the average golf course. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 Just now, Genie said: My house was built on a golf course Do you ever worry that in a storm the corpses of Farah clad gammons will rise again? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 21 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: It’s a fair point, golf courses are wildlife wastelands. I reckon a housing estate with some wild flower meadow amenity parkland would massively increase the biodiversity of the average golf course. We get loads of wildlife (probably not as much as before there were houses though). Fox’s, bats, Muntjac deer, badgers all spotted daily. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 23 minutes ago, Genie said: Will you be selling your house under market value to help someone out when you come to sell? Depends on the house im buying. If my house is worth less than the houses im looking at are less too. If my house goes up in value and i want another same size house i still have to pay the extra as the prices of all properties has gone up. So no benfit to me unless im down sizing or buying in a cheaper eg outer london 53 minutes ago, bickster said: Yes and more houses is what makes houses more affordable Hasnt helped so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Designer1 Posted October 11, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted October 11, 2023 25 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Do you ever worry that in a storm the corpses of Farah clad gammons will rise again? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted October 11, 2023 Moderator Share Posted October 11, 2023 3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Hasnt helped so far Because demand is still outstripping supply. Even Starmer's 1.5 million homes is a little short of the mark over 5 years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 36 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: It’s a fair point, golf courses are wildlife wastelands. I reckon a housing estate with some wild flower meadow amenity parkland would massively increase the biodiversity of the average golf course. stick those golfers in the parking lot and put some slides and windmills, see how much skill really is involved. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted October 11, 2023 Share Posted October 11, 2023 4 hours ago, Demitri_C said: There goes our greenbelt Do we really need more houses?? Just make houses more affordable I bet there are alot of new builds that are either empty or bought by stupid rich people who buy them and rent them out Yes we need a lot more social housing. I agree the housing market is broken. Too many rich buying them as investments, when we have a major housing crisis in this county. Homeless, people living in temporary accomodation, shunted from hotel to hotel. Hope hes going to give power back to the councils, so the housing waiting lists go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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