General Election 2017

[mockingbird_franklin]

2 minutes ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said:

Please, read my initial post. It outlines most of what you request. I criticise not campaigning on policy but anti-Conservative rhetoric, the fact that it's a very Labour mouthpiece and in a further post show that PFI was not pointed out, despite being part of the websites direct criticism; I even mention NHS agency staff.

I don't feel ridiculed at all, sometimes you need to write a little to free up the entrenched. Hopefully you're less stuck in a cycle of WYSIWYG.

 

well i'm glad you don't feel ridiculed, after all it was your post that was ridiculous. your summing up of your post is more than a little at odds with your actual rant

[itdoesntmatterwhatthissay]

2 minutes ago, snowychap said:

I was just taking your two posts as quoted below at face value (link and link).

Thanks for the list of all of the things that you've done. That list may well lend support to what I posted that your opinion may indeed be well-supported and of merit (I'll leave anyone else with much more expertise in the area than I have to comment on the list if they so wish) but it does not mean that what you have lobbied for (what you have been paid to lobby for) is necessarily the only immediate solution to an issue.

You ignored almost everything in my posts apart from the bits you needed to support your argument.......it kind of brings me back to where this all started, an anti-Conservative video that ignored the real facts in favour of rhetoric....

[hippo]

4 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

 

thats probably where i am at the moment, i think for the increase in popularity that corbyn has i still think he's got a vocal majority on social media thanks to the anyone but the tories stuff, seen it before, too many of those people dont vote...theres 2m new voters registered apparently but i still dont think the turnout will be high enough to overturn the majority the tories have in the more likely to vote older generation

at the last GE the highest turnout demographic was over 65s, labour had 1 in 4 votes from that age group, i dont see either element of that changing

but like you it'll still reflect badly on May, she looks inept

Like I say - I give  her 18 months.  She isn't that good.

I wonder if George Osbourne regrets jumping ship. Whilst I don't like what he represents he is a far superior politician to May

Edited May 22, 2017 by hippo

[Dodgyknees]

3 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

As in activating a younger vote which hadn't voted for a long time. Exactly what you were referring to. These younger voters fall far left of what the middle is in the labour party. The very fact that momentum now has the membership levels it does is proof to that. 

I'd be interested in reading these stats if you have them? And where that analysis is from?

[itdoesntmatterwhatthissay]

3 minutes ago, mockingbird_franklin said:

well i'm glad you don't feel ridiculed, after all it was your post that was ridiculous. your summing up of your post is more than a little at odds with your actual rant

Sigh. It's okay. You can stick with policy in theory and I'll stick with policy in practice.

Edited May 22, 2017 by itdoesntmatterwhatthissay

[magnkarl]

2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

Okay so, this goalposts have now changed from 'Corbyn panders to the extreme left' (with no explanation or proof) to 'Corbyn activated the left'.

I'm not beleaguered. I've simply asked the same question over and over again, which you've continuously dodged, made jibes at me, then moved the goalposts.

I'll ask once more.

How is Corbyn pandering to the extreme left (your words) of his party?

I told you many times now mate, give it a rest. He's often seen at SWP rallies, thinks that we can learn from Marxism and supports a whole wide range of subjects that are considered extreme left on the political scale. Google "Corbyn Socialist Workers Party" and look at his articles in their handouts etc. You don't need to be a conservative to call Corbyn one of the most left leaning leaders in recent Labour history.

[mockingbird_franklin]

5 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

As in activating a younger vote which hadn't voted for a long time. Exactly what you were referring to. These younger voters fall far left of what the middle is in the labour party. The very fact that momentum now has the membership levels it does is proof to that. 

how long can a young vote not have voted for?

 

 sorry being pedantic, I do actually understand the point your trying to make is about demographics rather than particular voters

[Dr_Pangloss]

Tories are all over the place, what an absolute mess.

[magnkarl]

3 minutes ago, DK82 said:

I'd be interested in reading these stats if you have them? And where that analysis is from?

From mementum's own page. http://www.peoplesmomentum.com/about

Quote

• Momentum evolved out of Jeremy Corbyn’s 2015 Labour leadership bid to build on the energy and enthusiasm generated by the campaign.

• Momentum has over 150 local groups, 20,000 members and 200,000 supporters, united by their shared vision for a fair and equal society.

• Momentum supports the Labour party, and works to increase participation and engagement in the party to enable it to win elections and enter Government.

• Momentum believes in an open, democratic Labour party, powered by its members.

 

[hippo]

Just now, magnkarl said:

I told you many times now mate, give it a rest. He's often seen at SWP rallies, thinks that we can learn from Marxism and supports a whole wide range of subjects that are considered extreme left on the political scale. Google "Corbyn Socialist Workers Party" and look at his articles in their handouts etc. You don't need to be a conservative to call Corbyn one of the most left leaning leaders in recent Labour history.

Fair point.

But whats in the manifesto isn't extreme. 

Don't forget even the leader of a political party doesn't get through all the policies he/she wants. - and when they do its very often their downfall  (Maggie - Poll Tax) 

[mockingbird_franklin]

3 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

I told you many times now mate, give it a rest.

Guess that tells you, magnkarl has spoken on the matter, now be a good boy and be quiet

 

[sharkyvilla]

25 minutes ago, DK82 said:

 

What an absolute Titus Brambles, she's proper cocked up on this.  Would be **** funny if she didn't increase the majority.  It serves them right for giving such a half-arsed manifesto, I mean there could be a reasonable policy in there if there was a cap of some sort but coming out with one now looks so amateurish.  The way she answers the questions as well doesn't bode well for the next few weeks.

[Dodgyknees]

1 minute ago, magnkarl said:

From mementum's own page. http://www.peoplesmomentum.com/about

 

And you have links to show these are also Labour members and that they all voted to keep Jeremy in power?

[snowychap]

9 minutes ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said:

You ignored almost everything in my posts apart from the bits you needed to support your argument.......it kind of brings me back to where this all started, an anti-Conservative video that ignored the real facts in favour of rhetoric....

I didn't ignore everything in your posts.

I quoted the bits that were most relevant to the discussion of you lobbying for SME housebuilders (being from a family of educators, thinking Cameron was awful or having problems with local government weren't really pertinent) and posted that your claim that what you were lobbying for was the 'only immediate solution' to something had to be seen in that context.

I could have gone on to quote this bit from the March 9 post to expound upon what I had already posted:

Quote

I'm not going to criticise May just yet because the housing industry has asked for change and on many topics the Housing White Paper has delivered for SMEs. Whether that translates to actual policy we shall soon see but while I would definitely agree that SMEs have typically not been part of any obvious strategy

 

Edited May 22, 2017 by snowychap

[magnkarl]

2 minutes ago, hippo said:

Fair point.

But whats in the manifesto isn't extreme. 

Don't forget even the leader of a political party doesn't get through all the policies he/she wants. - and when they do its very often their downfall  (Maggie - Poll Tax) 

I totally agree that his manifesto isn't as extreme as it could have been, I just think that he's put a manifesto out there that he knows won't be possible to realise because he knows he won't win. This way he'll get as many opposition votes as possible and reduce May's advantage.

[StefanAVFC]

6 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

I told you many times now mate, give it a rest. 

You hadn't said anything other than "he goes to SWP parties" up until this point, so cut the snark ta.

7 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

I told you many times now mate, give it a rest. He's often seen at SWP rallies, thinks that we can learn from Marxism and supports a whole wide range of subjects that are considered extreme left on the political scale. Google "Corbyn Socialist Workers Party" and look at his articles in their handouts etc. You don't need to be a conservative to call Corbyn one of the most left leaning leaders in recent Labour history.

Okay. Yet the manifesto, by the party led by Corbyn isn't pandering to the extreme left. Surely if he was dedicating so much of his time and attention to them, then he'd put together a manifesto aimed at them right?

It's like the bollocks about Farron's beliefs vs Farron's politics.

9 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

You don't need to be a conservative to call Corbyn one of the most left leaning leaders in recent Labour history.

Never a point being argued. You said 'Corbyn is pandering to the extreme left'.

[magnkarl]

2 minutes ago, DK82 said:

And you have links to show these are also Labour members and that they all voted to keep Jeremy in power?

The whole reason for momentum is to support Jeremy Corbyn. I don't know if you even read the summary I just posted form their site. May I suggest a bit less of a pedantic tone? Do you think Momentum supported Corbyn's opposition?

 

Quote

• Momentum evolved out of Jeremy Corbyn’s 2015 Labour leadership bid to build on the energy and enthusiasm generated by the campaign.

• Momentum has over 150 local groups, 20,000 members and 200,000 supporters, united by their shared vision for a fair and equal society.

• Momentum supports the Labour party, and works to increase participation and engagement in the party to enable it to win elections and enter Government.

• Momentum believes in an open, democratic Labour party, powered by its members.

 

[mockingbird_franklin]

6 minutes ago, itdoesntmatterwhatthissay said:

Sigh. It's okay. You can stick with policy in theory and I'll stick with policy in practice.

nice attempt at belittlement, I think if the last 30 odd years are anything to go by, the practice of political policy has resulted in abject failure in so many ways, i find the success ive enjoyed in my field has come from having and employing good theory and good practice

[MakemineVanilla]

5 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

How is Corbyn pandering to the extreme left (your words) of his party?

His rhetoric is based entirely on the binary morality of Marxism, which basically is always poor good, rich bad, and then formulating policies which amount to equality of outcome at any price.

The only selling point of his policies is not that they promise to solve a problem but that they are a clear and simple message that his government will attack the rich.

If you scratch the surface of most lefties, attacking the rich is all they really want to do, whether the outcome is beneficial or not.

It is why it is branded the politics of envy.

There is a lot of Labour candidates who find it sufficient to only learn the Left's mantras to please their invited audience and that is why know so little about their own policies.

[StefanAVFC]

Just now, MakemineVanilla said:

If you scratch the surface of most lefties, attacking the rich is all they really want to do, whether the outcome is beneficial or not.

Total nonsense.