sidcow Posted April 19, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted April 19, 2023 18 minutes ago, magnkarl said: Isn't that Martin Freeman without a wig? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted April 19, 2023 Share Posted April 19, 2023 14 hours ago, Genie said: I am really surprised with all the NATO kit that Putin appears to have gone in and out of Ukraine twice without being shot at. NATO has nothing to gain from targeting Putin. Under his leadership the Russian armed forces have been degraded to such an extent that they will not be a threat to NATO for a decade. But Putin would not be targeted because Russia could retaliate by taking out Biden. The US notified Russia of Biden's visit. Russia say they "allowed" him to visit. In reality, Russia would have done everything possible to avoid harming Biden. I would not be surprised if Russia did the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted April 19, 2023 Share Posted April 19, 2023 Not only that, but if NATO took out Putin then Russia might get someone that actually know what they are doing to replace him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted April 19, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted April 19, 2023 8 minutes ago, PussEKatt said: Not only that, but if NATO took out Putin then Russia might get someone that actually know what they are doing to replace him. Until the end of the season, it can only be this fella… 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Genie Posted April 19, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted April 19, 2023 4 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Until the end of the season, it can only be this fella… Somebody experienced with heavy losses. 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 19, 2023 Share Posted April 19, 2023 1 minute ago, Genie said: Somebody experienced with heavy losses. He knows the club Dave, he knows the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 19, 2023 Share Posted April 19, 2023 3 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: He knows the club Dave, he knows the club. It’s better than quality experience in a way. They don’t need to go through IT getting him a login ID for one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted April 19, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted April 19, 2023 21 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: Until the end of the season, it can only be this fella… What's someone whose got an inventory of their weapons and understands how best to deploy them got that Frank hasn't? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 (edited) Many posters are saying that the counter attack has started in the South. It could be a feint like Kherson was, but something is afoot. As a result, Russia has started "evacuating" (read, stealing children and deporting Ukrainians) Tokmak and Vasylivka. Ukraine also confirming that it's underway. Quote Deputy Defense Minister Hanna Maliar reportedly said Wednesday on national Ukrainian television that the planned counteroffensive "involves a vast and complex set of actions and measures carried out by the Armed Forces, which includes preparing people for a range of defensive and offensive actions." She added that planning is "already underway" and involved various strategies related to the preparation of equipment and reserves, training and tactical formation "chosen in such a way that the enemy cannot react," according to the Kyiv Independent. So far it doesn't appear to be involving any Western MBTs, so these are likely being prepared somewhere else. A 1-2 punch maybe? Edited April 20, 2023 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 (edited) The Ukrainian Deputy Defence Minister confirmed that the counter attack has begun. But she also said that there will be no significant news at the moment. Russian defenses are being tested for weaknesses and other actions taken. Russian sources are reporting that Ukraine is creating safe channels through its own minefields in the South East. They are also reporting that the best of the western artillery is massing North of Melitopol. Russia has evacuated all civilians from that area. Everything is bluff and double bluff at the moment. Edited April 20, 2023 by Mandy Lifeboats Spelling mishsteaks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 20, 2023 Moderator Share Posted April 20, 2023 This could be significant news... Quote South Korea has not ruled out extending its support for Ukraine beyond humanitarian and economic aid should Ukraine suffer more large-scale civilian attacks, President Yoon Suk Yeol said in an interview with Reuters on April 18. This signals for the first time a shift in his stance toward arming Ukraine. Ahead of his state visit to the United States next week, Yoon said his government has been exploring how to best help defend and rebuild Ukraine, just as South Korea received international assistance during the 1950-53 Korean War.[...] [...]“There won’t be limitations to the extent of the support to defend and restore a country that’s been illegally invaded both under international and domestic law.”[...] New Voice of Ukraine Why significant? Because South Korea has significant numbers of artillery in their inventory and a significant capacity to produce artillery shells, something NATO doesn't really have. The statement is a significant shift in South Korean policy and comes just a week before the South Korean President is making a state visit to the US 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted April 20, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted April 20, 2023 6 minutes ago, bickster said: This could be significant news... New Voice of Ukraine Why significant? Because South Korea has significant numbers of artillery in their inventory and a significant capacity to produce artillery shells, something NATO doesn't really have. The statement is a significant shift in South Korean policy and comes just a week before the South Korean President is making a state visit to the US Don't they make the artillery used by about half the worlds armies and the UK is supposed to be looking at to replace our own artillery? I guess they are used to training guns on a nearby aggressor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 I like the fact they mention “no limitations to the support” which sounds very much like the “no limits” partnership between China and Russia which clearly does have tight limits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 Military know-nothing here so grateful for this thread. Question: 50 or so western tanks to me doesn’t seem like a lot? How hard is it to just fire on and destroy say a challenger 2? With long range missiles and fighter jets and drones etc I just don’t see how useful a cumbersome tank is these days? Happy to be enlightened! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted April 20, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted April 20, 2023 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Spoony said: Military know-nothing here so grateful for this thread. Question: 50 or so western tanks to me doesn’t seem like a lot? How hard is it to just fire on and destroy say a challenger 2? With long range missiles and fighter jets and drones etc I just don’t see how useful a cumbersome tank is these days? Happy to be enlightened! Challenger Tanks are damn hard to kill. In fact the only one ever destroyed in Combat was by friendly fire by another Challenger. It was designed so 300 or so of them could roam around the open plains in Germany holding back vastly superior numbers of Russia armour in The Cold War. I believe the other tanks are not quite as well protected but are more maneuverable and have better guns (Challenger 3 is changing to those guns). A combination of them should be pretty devastating even if there is only 300 or so. They are far better than anything the Russians have. More importantly they should be used properly with proper infantry support and not just sent out on suicide missions like Russia do. I would imagine they'll punch a big hole wherever they're sent. Edited April 20, 2023 by sidcow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted April 20, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted April 20, 2023 11 minutes ago, Spoony said: Military know-nothing here so grateful for this thread. Question: 50 or so western tanks to me doesn’t seem like a lot? How hard is it to just fire on and destroy say a challenger 2? With long range missiles and fighter jets and drones etc I just don’t see how useful a cumbersome tank is these days? Happy to be enlightened! A Challenger has never been destroyed by an enemy action. The only one to be destroyed was hit by another Challenger in a friendly fire incident. The armour the Challenger has, a specific form of classified Chobham armour called Dorchester, is supremely hard to defeat, and can be modified further with explosive reactive armour on top, and fencing armour around that. Tanks are vulnerable from the air but they still have a significant role to play. They get used in small groups, supported by other types of vehicles and infantry, particularly with respect to anti-air measures, to achieve specific objectives. It's not purely a case of driving a line of tanks forward towards the enemy, and because of that they are a very useful tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted April 20, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted April 20, 2023 (edited) I remember reading a couple of years ago if Europe (including Britain) could win a conventional war with Russia if The USA did not participate. The summary was possibly but probably not. I wonder if the authors wrote that piece again what Their conclusion would now be. I reckon Russia would be smashed to oblivion. Ukraine have held them with a bunch of quickly trained by NATO troops, ex Soviet equipment and donated second rate NATO equipment. If the full time combined armies of Europe and their front line equipment were involved it would be a massacre. It seems Russian tactics and Equipment was vastly overestimated. Just imagine the full complement of European tanks, all the Challengers and Leopards. The Russian Navy would be taken out PDQ I think by the combined Navies (assuming The Royal Navy could actually get our Destroyers to sea ) All. Those Typhoons, Grippon, Rafale and purchased American jets flying around. I can't see any way Russia would cope with that. Edited April 20, 2023 by sidcow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 11 minutes ago, sidcow said: It seems Russian tactics and Equipment was vastly overestimated. The labelling of Russia as a Superpower was always just hype. They could never compete with the west. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted April 20, 2023 Share Posted April 20, 2023 18 minutes ago, sidcow said: I remember reading a couple of years ago if Europe (including Britain) could win a conventional war with Russia if The USA did not participate. The summary was possibly but probably not. I wonder if the authors wrote that piece again what Their conclusion would now be. I reckon Russia would be smashed to oblivion. Ukraine have held them with a bunch of quickly trained by NATO troops, ex Soviet equipment and donated second rate NATO equipment. If the full time combined armies of Europe and their front line equipment were involved it would be a massacre. It seems Russian tactics and Equipment was vastly overestimated. Just imagine the full complement of European tanks, all the Challengers and Leopards. The Russian Navy would be taken out PDQ I think by the combined Navies (assuming The Royal Navy could actually get our Destroyers to sea ) All. Those Typhoons, Grippon, Rafale and purchased American jets flying around. I can't see any way Russia would cope with that. I think an argument could be made that the UK alone could take out Russia based on this showing… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted April 20, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted April 20, 2023 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Spoony said: I think an argument could be made that the UK alone could take out Russia based on this showing… Errrr no. Our Army, Navy and Airforce have been wound down to such an extent they'd be overrun just due to massive opposing numbers despite overwhelming tactical and equipment advantages. Edited April 20, 2023 by sidcow 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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