magnkarl Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 21 minutes ago, Mr_Dogg said: Ya, I don't think it's such a crazy story, Moscow is quite the place especially if you are somewhat wealthy. So is 14 yearly average wages in India for a year of service in the meat grinding machine called the Russian armed forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 There was another story in the news a few days ago about some Indians who signed up for a non-combat support role in the Russian army (for big money compared to the migrant work they were already doing in Russia) and got sent straight to the front lines. It’s possible that’s what happened here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, Panto_Villan said: There was another story in the news a few days ago about some Indians who signed up for a non-combat support role in the Russian army (for big money compared to the migrant work they were already doing in Russia) and got sent straight to the front lines. It’s possible that’s what happened here. They probably got them with the small print “other duties to be required to be undertaken as required” Right lads, heavy losses on the front line so off you go. We’ll bring you back when the reinforcements arrive, honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 6 hours ago, Panto_Villan said: There was another story in the news a few days ago about some Indians who signed up for a non-combat support role in the Russian army (for big money compared to the migrant work they were already doing in Russia) and got sent straight to the front lines. It’s possible that’s what happened here. Ha. I've got some sympathy if the previous story is true, but these mercenaries happy to take the money as long as they were safe away from enemy lines deserve everything that comes their way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 (edited) I can't wrap my head around France. Macron keeps saying that there's no limits, but when you look at what's been delivered France isn't even top 15 if it wasn't for EU-wide donations. Considering France has the largest military industrial base in Europe, as well as the largest stockpile of AFV's, IFV's, and MRAPs just sitting around it does seem like a lot of bluster from Macron. Do as I say, not as I do. I don't know how many mirages are in storage in France, but surely some of the 100's of Leclercs, LRU's, 100 AMX 30 155mm howitzers, PVPs, VBLs, Jaguars and Servals sitting around could be put to better use than Macron's hot air. He rubs me the wrong way, deliver and then talk. Not the other way around. Macron says a lot of tough words for someone who's delivered 5 times less than Denmark and 7 times less than Norway, with an economy 70 times that of both. France and Germany (and to a large extent the UK) need to get their heads out of their behinds, they/we all seem incapable of any sort of quick thinking. For the UK just rerouting sales of high tech equipment to Israel would likely stem the tide in one direction in Ukraine. We've delivered obscene amounts of stuff to Israel that could actually serve a purpose in Ukraine rather than being used to bomb civilians in Gaza. Edited March 7 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 18 minutes ago, magnkarl said: I can't wrap my head around France. It's simple. French politicians like to think of themselves as the most advanced, intellectual politicians in the world and the leader(s) of Europe. Nobody takes anything they say seriously because they are full of their own ego inflated BS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted March 7 VT Supporter Share Posted March 7 14 minutes ago, villa89 said: It's simple. French politicians like to think of themselves as the most advanced, intellectual politicians in the world and the leader(s) of Europe. Nobody takes anything they say seriously because they are full of their own ego inflated BS. Shrugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted March 7 Share Posted March 7 (edited) Our press misrepresented the French policy because its popular to criticise our beloved neighbours. Frances policy is "strategic ambiguity". To put it simply they aren't ruling out anything and are discussing things they have no intention of doing. This is to keep Russia guessing and expending resources in the wrong places. Quote I’m choosing not to tell you the specifics of what France can and will do, because I would otherwise weaken the efficiency of aid and support to Ukraine,” Macron said. He also pointed towards the EU’s general “tendency” to be too transparent on military tactics and next moves, in the face of “[Vladimir Putin], who doesn’t say a thing but acts, even in unthinkable ways”. https://www.euractiv.com/section/defence-and-security/news/mustnt-be-cowards-macron-clarifies-strategic-ambiguity-after-ukraine-troops-on-ground-remarks/ Edited March 7 by Mandy Lifeboats Added details 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 8 Moderator Share Posted March 8 9 hours ago, magnkarl said: For the UK just rerouting sales of high tech equipment to Israel would likely stem the tide in one direction in Ukraine. We've delivered obscene amounts of stuff to Israel that could actually serve a purpose in Ukraine rather than being used to bomb civilians in Gaza. I’d love to see evidence of that. My understanding is the opposite. The uk is not a big supplier of things that go bang to Israel. It’s true that we make a part (rear fuselage) of the F-35 that the US sells/sold them, but in terms of provision of tanks, missiles, artillery, ammunition and training and support for military defence/ops my understanding is that we do next to nothing for Israel and a lot for Ukraine, comparatively. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Lifeboats Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 35 minutes ago, blandy said: my understanding is that we do next to nothing for Israel and a lot for Ukraine That's very much my understanding. Israel has ample weapons. The US has been supplying them with ammunition to fire from those weapons. Our contribution has been minimal. Quote Since 2008, the UK has licenced arms worth over £574 million to Israel https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9964/ Edited March 8 by Mandy Lifeboats Added details 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 2 hours ago, blandy said: I’d love to see evidence of that. My understanding is the opposite. The uk is not a big supplier of things that go bang to Israel. It’s true that we make a part (rear fuselage) of the F-35 that the US sells/sold them, but in terms of provision of tanks, missiles, artillery, ammunition and training and support for military defence/ops my understanding is that we do next to nothing for Israel and a lot for Ukraine, comparatively. Albeit, slightly old, but here's some on it. Quote Approved export licences for arms sales from the UK to Israel cover components for small arms, ammunition, night-sight technology and intelligence. According to Campaign Against Arms Trade, between 2016 and 2020, the UK issued single individual export licences for arms sales to Israel to a value of £400m. This is a significant increase from the £67m in licences from 2011 to 2015. As far as I gather we deliver some of the homing equipment for JDAMS as well as parts of other things, together with a whole lot of monetary support historically for both sides (there's no stats out since Oct 11th). My broad point is that our military or monetary aid would be much more well used in Ukraine rather than Saudi Arabia, Israel, PA and whatnot. Our contribution to Ukraine is nowhere near enough in my opinion, especially when you see what we've spent on other more meaningless conflicts. If we can cough up weapons to sell to Saudi Arabia and Israel we surely can cough up weapons to sell to Ukraine. Though I'm not satisfied by our support to Ukraine, it's still miles better than France's. We've not got the surplus stock that France has sitting in storage so at least we can't just deliver stuff we've already got sitting around. Even if France just delivered 50 of their 155mm self propelled howitzers they've got sitting in storage, they'd still have over 100 left that aren't in active duty. Edited March 8 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted March 8 Moderator Share Posted March 8 20 minutes ago, magnkarl said: My broad point is that our military or monetary aid would be much more well used in Ukraine rather than Saudi Arabia, Israel, PA and whatnot. We give and have given significant military aid to Ukraine. The stuff we sell/sold to Israel and elsewhere not only couldn’t be “rerouted” to Ukraine, but even if it could, it’d be of little or no use to them. I get the sentiment, but the reality is not as you say it is. Ukraine needs howitzer shells, ammunition, fighter jets, air defence missiles and guns, Tanks, intel and etc. They’re burning through that stuff faster than it’s being provided, now. Particularly since the US has stopped providing anything. But that stuff, by and large, that’s not what we sold (under legally binding contracts) to other places, like Israel. And the value of the aid to Ukraine exceeds the cumulative 5 year period value you quoted for licenses of sales to Israel. There’s obviously a thread for Israel, if people want to talk about the horror story there, in Gaza, but for Ukraine, yes, western nations are far from “all in” to different degrees and as a consequence Ukraine is struggling and losing ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 I’m seeing reports on Twitter that Norway has provided the last bit of funding required for the Czech-led European effort to buy the 800k artillery shells from the rest of the world. If so that’s great news. Gives the US a bit more time to sort their shit out (although it seems like they’ve got a final tranche of $4bn available if they really need it too). Maybe those two things are enough to get Ukraine through to November, when Trump will hopefully lose the election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, blandy said: We give and have given significant military aid to Ukraine. The stuff we sell/sold to Israel and elsewhere not only couldn’t be “rerouted” to Ukraine, but even if it could, it’d be of little or no use to them. I get the sentiment, but the reality is not as you say it is. Ukraine needs howitzer shells, ammunition, fighter jets, air defence missiles and guns, Tanks, intel and etc. They’re burning through that stuff faster than it’s being provided, now. Particularly since the US has stopped providing anything. But that stuff, by and large, that’s not what we sold (under legally binding contracts) to other places, like Israel. And the value of the aid to Ukraine exceeds the cumulative 5 year period value you quoted for licenses of sales to Israel. There’s obviously a thread for Israel, if people want to talk about the horror story there, in Gaza, but for Ukraine, yes, western nations are far from “all in” to different degrees and as a consequence Ukraine is struggling and losing ground. Where there's a will there's a way. Other countries, including Norway, Slovakia (before the current pro-Putin tool got elected) and the Netherlands have decided to reroute weapon deliveries from contracted clients to Ukraine instead. The F-16s bound for Ukraine from Norway in example were already sold to Romania, and several of the NASAMS delivered from Norway to Ukraine were taken out of active delivery to other allies to be given to Ukraine. It seems the old great powers of Europe are still to wake up to the reality of this conflict while the smaller Northern and Eastern nations are really the only ones properly leaning in. As I said I think we've done okay with what we have, but in particular France is talking a lot without actually doing much. If you remove EU-aid from France's donations it's really poor considering they've got vast stocks of pretty much everything bar 155mm ammunition lying around. France's Leclerc reserve alone would equip a very strong battalion formation with tanks that France won't ever use. Edited March 8 by magnkarl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedClaretAndBlue Posted March 9 Share Posted March 9 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted March 10 Moderator Share Posted March 10 The Pope is off his chump again, suggesting Ukraine should prepare to make peace with Russia 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 1 hour ago, bickster said: The Pope is off his chump again, suggesting Ukraine should prepare to make peace with Russia It's fun how he thinks two states of largely non-catholics will listen to him rather than China, the US and most of the world community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 Rumors of a second bridgehead forming on the Dnipro, this time further north using the now barren landscape of the reservoir to cross the river. It's only a week since the Russian MOD said they'd kicked all Ukrainians out of the East bank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain_Townsend Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 God I despise Putin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awol Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 If this document is genuine, then it’s very important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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