UpTheVilla26 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 All the interview has done is reinforced the fact Putin is a massive, delusional bell-end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 Everything's ok, he's said they have no further territorial claims. He seems trustworthy so I'm choosing to believe him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villaglint Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 46 minutes ago, UpTheVilla26 said: All the interview has done is reinforced the fact Putin is a delusional bell-end six inches shorter than Tommy Elphick. Fixed that for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 1 hour ago, magnkarl said: I just love Putin's arguments. Ukraine is a false state. What about Kaliningrad and Karelia Putin? Or anything East of the Volga and south of the Don. It's like he chooses which time his arguments work and totally neglects the times after the times where newly acquired territory suddenly is 100% Russian. No one can use Putin's arguments against him, because he says so! Nursery-argumentation. Tucker might as well have just given Putin the mic and left the room, he didn't even ask one question that wasn't licking Putin's boots. Jesus. I liked how he referenced how Poland worked with Nazis in 30s a couple of times. That is highly arguable at best. Forgot to mention how Russia made a pact with Hitler and taken half of Poland on 17th September 1939. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted February 9 Share Posted February 9 He also said that Zelenskyy's dad fought with the Nazis. Despite being born after WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted February 10 Share Posted February 10 (edited) Turned Carlson inside out with nonsense about Russian history and borders without really getting to the crux of the murders of innocent civilians and what the majority of Ukrainian people actually want which is separation from Russia claiming that the conflict is more a civil war. What I also found despicable was early on in the interview when he pointed out that Poland were in someway responsible for their own destruction and the extermination of the Jews during WW2 by not giving Hitler what he wanted when the facts are Hitler was a evil c*** and Russia wanted to take a portion of the Poland itself just like they wanted Finland. I'm sure people around the world will see this as an extraordinary interview but the facts remain that without Putins orders and Russian aggression in since 2014 and also since 2022 over a million humans would still be alive. Both Ukrainian and Russian. But yeah, good diversion from the real issues. I'm actually amazed that most the comments on all channels reporting this see him as some sort of great leader when he's no different to any of the warmongering clowns that have ruled throughout history around the globe and used it's citizens as cannon fodder. No doubt Western agencies and news channels cherry pick what they report but Putin is a smug little rat with no remorse. It's always the wrong individuals doing the interviewing. Carlson is a dumbass and Putin knew it from the get go which is why he tied him in knots during the first hour spouting nonsense that has no real relevance to what is still happening in Ukraine. Edited February 10 by avfc1982am 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 On 08/02/2024 at 18:38, BleedClaretAndBlue said: New commander in chief for Ukraine then - Syrskyi Musk apparently supplying the Russians starlink now too It’s been denied by both Starlink and by Russia. The Ukrainians never gave any evidence for their claims. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 So this war is basically done now isn't it? Ukraine have made zero progress over the past 12 months, they have run low on weapons and completely run out of fighting age men willing to fight, USA not providing any more weapons. I guess this current territory becomes the new border though officially both countries stay at war, but neither side will put a lot of effort into it going forward. A new border skirmishes over the next 5-10 years, Putin dies and both sides agree the new border. Ukraine joins EU and NATO based on these new borders. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 12 VT Supporter Share Posted February 12 It's not done. It won't be for a very long time unless Ukraine gives up. That was always the problem with viewing it as a war Ukraine could 'win'. Ukraine's win strategy has always been to essentially keep fighting and making gains where it could and to keep pushing until Russia's will to keep the conflict going gave in - that's a **** long game. For all that Russia was burning through kit and men and had a fair few embarrassments, it's got a **** ton of more stuff to chuck at Ukraine and it doesn't really matter if that kit isn't cutting edge or even particularly modern. The allies have supported Ukraine with cash and equipment to keep going, and tried to squeeze Russia with trade measures to pressure them into giving up, but it's not really worked, Putin's too powerful in all respects and Russia too big and too able to survive being squeezed in various ways for it to really make much difference. The kit and cash supply line isn't infinite either, and the will to keep going from the allies is starting to weigh more than the cost appears worth, sadly for Kiev. The end game is probably some form of stalemate ala Korea and Ukraine never entering NATO proper, but with a possible EU membership as a consolation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 1 hour ago, ender4 said: So this war is basically done now isn't it? Ukraine have made zero progress over the past 12 months, they have run low on weapons and completely run out of fighting age men willing to fight, USA not providing any more weapons. I guess this current territory becomes the new border though officially both countries stay at war, but neither side will put a lot of effort into it going forward. A new border skirmishes over the next 5-10 years, Putin dies and both sides agree the new border. Ukraine joins EU and NATO based on these new borders. You'll probably find out in the next couple of weeks. The US Senate is due to pass an aid bill for Israel and Ukraine on Wednesday (with both Democrat and Republican support), and it'll be sent to Congress. If it passes, then you can expect the stalemate to continue until at least November. Maybe Russia will take small amounts of territory, but nothing too significant. It's possible next year or later this year that Russia will exhaust their stocks of military hardware and want to negotiate some kind of peace where they retain some of the territory they've taken, but perhaps not all of it. But if the vote fails or the Republican speaker just decides not to bring it to the floor then the US aid for Ukraine is dead. If that happens then the war is effectively over at that point - Ukraine won't be able to hold their territory, as Europe just doesn't have the military stockpiles or production to sustain Ukraine's war effort alone. Russia will have no reason to seek any kind of peace deal when they've got Ukraine on the ropes and have already stared down the West. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 3 hours ago, Panto_Villan said: You'll probably find out in the next couple of weeks. The US Senate is due to pass an aid bill for Israel and Ukraine on Wednesday (with both Democrat and Republican support), and it'll be sent to Congress. If it passes, then you can expect the stalemate to continue until at least November. Maybe Russia will take small amounts of territory, but nothing too significant. It's possible next year or later this year that Russia will exhaust their stocks of military hardware and want to negotiate some kind of peace where they retain some of the territory they've taken, but perhaps not all of it. But if the vote fails or the Republican speaker just decides not to bring it to the floor then the US aid for Ukraine is dead. If that happens then the war is effectively over at that point - Ukraine won't be able to hold their territory, as Europe just doesn't have the military stockpiles or production to sustain Ukraine's war effort alone. Russia will have no reason to seek any kind of peace deal when they've got Ukraine on the ropes and have already stared down the West. So basically best case is Ukraine accepts current new border with Russia keeping Donbas & Crimea and worst case is Russia taking a lot more of Ukraine as their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 Just now, ender4 said: So basically best case is Ukraine accepts current new border with Russia keeping Donbas & Crimea and worst case is Russia taking a lot more of Ukraine as their own. If the West throws its weight behind Ukraine the best case could potentially be better than that - the Ukrainians are more motivated than the Russians given it’s their country under attack, and the West’s industrial capacity (and technology) dwarfs that of Russia. Given enough supplies the Ukrainians might be able to make it too costly for the Russians to want to continue the fight, and have to give some concessions to end the war. But that’s reliant on this Ukraine aid bill being passed and then Biden winning the election, I think. Or some black swan event like a coup in Russia or Putin dropping dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 10 minutes ago, ender4 said: So basically best case is Ukraine accepts current new border with Russia keeping Donbas & Crimea and worst case is Russia taking a lot more of Ukraine as their own. I know he’s not the most trustworthy person, but didn’t Putin say in his interview with Carlson he didn’t want any more land? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 1 minute ago, Panto_Villan said: If the West throws its weight behind Ukraine the best case could potentially be better than that - the Ukrainians are more motivated than the Russians given it’s their country under attack, and the West’s industrial capacity (and technology) dwarfs that of Russia. Given enough supplies the Ukrainians might be able to make it too costly for the Russians to want to continue the fight, and have to give some concessions to end the war. But that’s reliant on this Ukraine aid bill being passed and then Biden winning the election, I think. Or some black swan event like a coup in Russia or Putin dropping dead. I think we’ve already been around this loop once, shit loads of guns, bombs and tanks were supplied and pretty much no progress happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
one_ian_taylor Posted February 12 VT Supporter Share Posted February 12 6 minutes ago, Genie said: I know he’s not the most trustworthy person, but didn’t Putin say in his interview with Carlson he didn’t want any more land? This is not war, it's a special operation. We are not taking land, we are maintaining Russia's territorial integrity, and we have the votes to prove it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted February 12 Moderator Share Posted February 12 4 minutes ago, Genie said: I think we’ve already been around this loop once, shit loads of guns, bombs and tanks were supplied and pretty much no progress happened. Most of which is still intact from what I can work out. They’ve kept it in reserve for when the F16s arrive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panto_Villan Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 15 minutes ago, Genie said: I think we’ve already been around this loop once, shit loads of guns, bombs and tanks were supplied and pretty much no progress happened. Depend what you mean by “progress”. The aid supplied so far stopped the routine takeover of Ukraine, and then allowed Ukraine to push the Russians out of Kharkiv etc. It’s much more of a stalemate now, but the aid given so far has been far from pointless. At this point the question is just “do we let Ukraine collapse?” or “do we back Ukraine to the point where the Russians eventually have to seek peace?” Because right now Russia has no interest in peace, because they know they’ll win the long war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 12 Share Posted February 12 1 minute ago, Panto_Villan said: Depend what you mean by “progress”. The aid supplied so far stopped the routine takeover of Ukraine, and then allowed Ukraine to push the Russians out of Kharkiv etc. It’s much more of a stalemate now, but the aid given so far has been far from pointless. At this point the question is just “do we let Ukraine collapse?” or “do we back Ukraine to the point where the Russians eventually have to seek peace?” Because right now Russia has no interest in peace, because they know they’ll win the long war. The Russian takeover threat stopped at about week 2. From then on it was Russia just holding the East and Ukraine making marginal gains in 2 years of pushing. I agree on the other points. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 13 Share Posted February 13 8 hours ago, Genie said: The Russian takeover threat stopped at about week 2. From then on it was Russia just holding the East and Ukraine making marginal gains in 2 years of pushing. I agree on the other points. The retaking of the Kharkiv region and the liberation of Kherson / the right bank were more than marginal gains the Ukraine achieved after the first two weeks. The Kharkiv counter offensive occurred in September 22 and the liberation of Kherson was November 22. Since the winter of 22/23 the front line has been heavily mined and is now largely fixed in place. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted February 13 VT Supporter Share Posted February 13 10 hours ago, Panto_Villan said: Depend what you mean by “progress”. The aid supplied so far stopped the routine takeover of Ukraine, and then allowed Ukraine to push the Russians out of Kharkiv etc. It’s much more of a stalemate now, but the aid given so far has been far from pointless. At this point the question is just “do we let Ukraine collapse?” or “do we back Ukraine to the point where the Russians eventually have to seek peace?” Because right now Russia has no interest in peace, because they know they’ll win the long war. Long term they won't win anything other than the bad will of their neighbours. Eventually the Ukraine will get back what the people want, it may take 40 years but it will happen. My guess is when Putin dies the special op will die with him, question is how long has he got left, 5 years, 10 maybe? Time and time again history shows us that military might doesn't overcome the will of a countries people, just chaos, death and destruction and then quiet withdrawal (defeat). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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