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Conor Hourihane

dont_do_it_doug.

By dont_do_it_doug.
in Other Football

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Kiwivillan Grand Master

Kiwivillan

Posted
Posted
Just now, Stratvillan said:

Nice reasoned argument.

McGinn and hourihane scored the same, hourihane had more assists despite playing 800 minutes less.

 

McGinn wasn't on set pieces. I already pointed that out as did others. Stats is more than goals and assists. If you wanted to say he made more assists that would be correct but again set pieces

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Stratvillan Collaborator

Stratvillan

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

McGinn wasn't on set pieces. I already pointed that out as did others. Stats is more than goals and assists. If you wanted to say he made more assists that would be correct but again set pieces

I wouldn't disagree, but there might be a reason why Hourihane is on set pieces and McGinn isnt. That is an argument for Hourihane surely.

To end the discussion I actually think that McGinn is the better footballer, but I think Hourihanes qualities are dismissed too quickly. I think we need to improve on both, if we are to reach top 10.

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barry'sboots Proficient

barry'sboots

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Stratvillan said:

I wouldn't disagree, but there might be a reason why Hourihane is on set pieces and McGinn isnt. That is an argument for Hourihane surely.

To end the discussion I actually think that McGinn is the better footballer, but I think Hourihanes qualities are dismissed too quickly. I think we need to improve on both, if we are to reach top 10.

CH has a wicked left foot and, if, like NFL, you could bring on a special team for set pieces he would be perfect BUT if you are not dominating the game/require defensive effort he is just too lightweight/lacks dynamism.  

I think the SJM that played in the promotion push and at the start of last season, before his injury, is definitely a top 10 player.  Got to be if Fergie says so as well??

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TRO Grand Master

TRO

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, barry'sboots said:

CH has a wicked left foot and, if, like NFL, you could bring on a special team for set pieces he would be perfect BUT if you are not dominating the game/require defensive effort he is just too lightweight/lacks dynamism.  

I think the SJM that played in the promotion push and at the start of last season, before his injury, is definitely a top 10 player.  Got to be if Fergie says so as well??

But SJM is now just JM.....he needs to rediscover his form to return to the accolades.

We know he is returning to fitness, but that is his challenge.

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TRO Grand Master

TRO

Posted
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Stratvillan said:

Whether people rate him or not, and I think we are in 2 camps. I think we can all agree he is not a cdm. I would rate my own tackling as tougher.

He is not CDM.....doesn't even resemble one.

I think some fans seem to struggle with the distinctions between a CDM and a CAM......its chalk and cheese for me and not interchangeable.....not if you want success......you can't fill your midfield with one type, either......a good midfield requires balance.

Edited by TRO
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Sam-AVFC Mentor

Sam-AVFC

Posted
Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, TRO said:

He is not CDM.....doesn't even resemble one.

I think some fans seem to struggle with the distinctions between a CDM and a CAM......its chalk and cheese for me and not interchangeable.....not if you want success......you can't fill your midfield with one type, either......a good midfield requires balance.

I don't think that's true at all. With all due respect* I think you're slightly stuck on the stereotype of player that has played there successfully for most of your life.

The role has evolved a lot in the last few years with more teams playing a 3 man midfield and wanting someone who can start attacks and keep the ball than just picking the 4th biggest bastard behind the goalie and centrebacks. Of course they still need to be mobile and have good positioning, which a player like Luiz fits.

Being good in the air in the position has lost a lot of its' importance for 2 reasons as I see it - very few teams actually lump the ball into that area of the pitch and, if they do, a lot more teams playing with such a high line means that often the centrebacks are taking up this space anyway.

*apologies for 'all due respecting', I'm not sure it can ever come out anything but patronising

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TRO Grand Master

TRO

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Sam-AVFC said:

I don't think that's true at all. With all due respect I think you're slightly stuck on the stereotype of player that has played there successfully for most of your life.

The role has evolved a lot in the last few years with more teams playing a 3 man midfield and wanting someone who can start attacks and keep the ball than just picking the 4th biggest bastard behind the goalie and centrebacks. Of course they still need to be mobile and have good positioning, which a player like Luiz fits.

Being good in the air in the position has lost a lot of its' importance for 2 reasons as I see it - very few teams actually lump the ball into that area of the pitch and, if they do, a lot more teams playing with such a high line means that often the centrebacks are taking up this space anyway.

With respect you are pre- judging what my interpretation of a CDM is.

I don't believe we should be looking for a player of your description.....yes, i am getting on, but even I can recognise the changes in the modern game....the big ugly so and so is not my idea of our CDM solution......I like Luiz, but in some games one is not enough.

However the qualities required between a CDM and a CAM are tangible to me....they are not the same, sure one or two maybe, but as a whole, they are different.

you may disagree....which is your prerogative, but don't tell me what i am stuck on, when I am not.

 just because, i have been watching top flight football for over 60 years, doesn't preclude me from understanding the modern game.....to think otherwise is sterotype in it self.

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Sam-AVFC Mentor

Sam-AVFC

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, TRO said:

With respect you are pre- judging what my interpretation of a CDM is.

I don't believe we should be looking for a player of your description.....yes, i am getting on, but even I can recognise the changes in the modern game....the big ugly so and so is not my idea of our CDM solution......I like Luiz, but in some games one is not enough.

However the qualities required between a CDM and a CAM are tangible to me....they are not the same, sure one or two maybe, but as a whole, they are different.

you may disagree....which is your prerogative, but don't tell me what i am stuck on, when I am not.

 just because, i have been watching top flight football for over 60 years, doesn't preclude me from understanding the modern game.....to think otherwise is sterotype in it self.

I'm actually basing it on your numerous posts about the position and your comment that people don't seem to understand the difference, but OK.

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TRO Grand Master

TRO

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

I'm actually basing it on your numerous posts about the position and your comment that people don't seem to understand the difference, but OK.

I have read posts on here, where i am a sure as hell many folk DO understand the distinction.....i have actually endorsed those posts with a "like"

maybe i have not referenced the point properly.....some fans, not all fans.

I have to confess, it is one of my favourite positions, hence my temptation to labour the point....sorry for that.

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Jas10 Grand Master

Jas10

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, TRO said:

I have read posts on here, where i am a sure as hell many folk DO understand the distinction.....i have actually endorsed those posts with a "like"

maybe i have not referenced the point properly.....some fans, not all fans.

I have to confess, it is one of my favourite positions, hence my temptation to labour the point....sorry for that.

Can you give any examples of the midfielder you’d like us to bring in?

I‘m in agreement with your views, we at least need to have that option to mix it up and help us in the tougher games so we aren’t overpowered and outmuscled against certain opposition (happened to Nakamba many times and he was generally poor, fairly small & lightweight for a DM and poor on the ball, need someone who can pass it well).

We do lack some height but tall players don’t need to be lacking technically either, we can have the best of both worlds.

We don’t have to play the same 3 in MF every game, the more options (something we desperately lack) the better and we can then be flexible & adaptable.

The squad needs upgrading as it barely survived last season, injuries to key players hit us hard.

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TRO Grand Master

TRO

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Jas10 said:

Can you give any examples of the midfielder you’d like us to bring in?

I‘m in agreement with your views, we at least need to have that option to mix it up and help us in the tougher games so we aren’t overpowered and outmuscled against certain opposition (happened to Nakamba many times and he was generally poor, fairly small & lightweight for a DM and poor on the ball, need someone who can pass it well).

We do lack some height but tall players don’t need to be lacking technically either, we can have the best of both worlds.

We don’t have to play the same 3 in MF every game, the more options (something we desperately lack) the better and we can then be flexible & adaptable.

The squad needs upgrading as it barely survived last season, injuries to key players hit us hard.

You have to understand, I am not an authority on European Football....but I will try and give you examples of my choices.

I am taken by Sander Berge, Wilfred Ndidi and Steven Nzonzi, weston McKennie.....all players we have missed......ideally Fabinho,Liverpool or Casemiro, Real Madrid.

It also has to be tempered with availability /cost and do we want a player to fit in to our 22-25 profile? ( great for team spirit)or go for an older head for guidance....lets have a go.

  • Konrad Laimer 23 - RB Leipzig
  • Thomas Partey 27 - Athletico Madrid
  • Lorenzo Pellegrini 24  - Roma
  • Gabriel 26-Benfica
  • Lisandro Martinez 22-Ajax
  • Sergej Milinkovic-savic 25- Lazio
  • Tiemoue Bakayoko -26 chelsea ( on loan to AS Monaco)

or maybe a few old heads like  Sven Bender 31 or Javi Martinez 32

That would be the style i would be looking for...Not to dispense with Douglas Luiz to accompany him, in a 4-2--3-1

 

 

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Jas10 Grand Master

Jas10

Posted
Posted (edited)
25 minutes ago, TRO said:

You have to understand, I am not an authority of European Football....but I will try and give you examples of my choices.

I am taken by Sander Berge, Wilfred Ndidi and Steven Nzonzi, weston McKennie.....all players we have missed......ideally Fabinho,Liverpool or Casemiro, Real Madrid.

It also has to be tempered with availability and do we want a player to fit in to our 22-25 profile ( great for team spirit)or go for an older head for guidance....lets have a go.

  • Konrad Laimer 23 - RB Leipzig
  • Thomas Partey 27 - Athletico Madrid
  • Lorenzo Pellegrini 24  - Roma
  • Gabriel 26-Benfica
  • Lisandro Martinez 22-Ajax
  • Sergej Milinkovic-savic 25- Lazio
  • Tiemoue Bakayoko -26 chelsea ( on loan to AS Monaco)

or maybe a few old heads like  Sven Bender 31 or Javi Martinez 32

That would be the style i would be looking for...Not to dispense with Douglas Luiz to accompany him, in a 4-2--3-1

 

 

Nicely done & I understand that you mean “of that type/style” rather than those specific names, many of which would be hard to attract.

In a dream scenario, Savic would be a sensational signing but it’s never going to happen.

An older head sounds like a good idea but we need someone with longevity (as you said also) of the right age. I wonder if we get could get Bakayoko on loan... Chelsea have far too many surplus players.

I would take a look at this link too TRO, plenty of good suggestions here who would be ideal:

https://totalfootballanalysis.com/data-analysis/finding-new-defensive-midfielder-for-spurs-data-analysis-statistics

How about Yangel Herrera? Loads there, many would be chased by “top clubs” but if we can get in ahead of them for some less recognised talents then that would be great.

Edited by Jas10
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