Steve Bruce

[dn1982]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Thanks for the 'detail'.

I feel so enriched, let's hope you never have to run a project.

Bruce’s has only wasted about £15m for me Hogan Thor and Elmo. All pointless signings 

[sheepyvillian]

12 hours ago, TRO said:

Well rounded, summed up post mark.

you are the sensible one, to write in reasonable increments and not get drawn in to the everyday sludge like me.

I need to learn.

You know the old saying TRO ? Don't lay on the ropes , you'll get tired from all that bobbing and weaving .

[bannedfromHandV]

3 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Just for you. Bruce signings since his arrival at Aston Villa in Oct 2016 amass to a total of around £30m

Sam Johnstone   LOAN

Neil Taylor   SWAP

Birkir Bjarnasson  £1.8m

Henri Lansbury  £3m

James Bree    £3.1m

Conor Hourihane  £3.1m

Scott Hogan  £12m 

We will add say £4m scattered between the above on signing on fees included.

Sam Jonstone    LOAN

Glenn Whelan    £1.5m

John Terry    FREE

Ahmed Elmohamady  £1m

Josh Onomah   LOAN

Robert Snodgrass   LOAN

Chris Samba   FREE

We will add say £5m scattered between the above on signing on fees included.

When you total that up (before wages and bonuses) it works out in the region of around £34m there or there abouts.

Most of the teams in this league won't spend that over the next 5 seasons in what Bruce has spent in just over 14 months in charge.

To be sitting just about 5th in the play offs, more chance dropping to 10th after 2 loses than we are reaching 2nd with 2 wins, and with the money spent playing pish mediocore football is just a complete piss take.

Any other team with the right manager would have had this league sewn up before the January window had ended... Pretty much what Wolves look like doing - spending near the same amount as what Bruce has had to also play with.

What is even funnier is those that still insist Bruce is doing a good job!  

Oh okay, let's just scatter a few more million whilst we're at it and since when did we start factoring in signing on fees? When evaluating a Managers spend it's generally done so on transfers. I notice you've not bothered to include any of the outgoings either which bring the net spend down significantly.

Everything you write as an agenda to it, "to be sitting just about 5th" - what does just about mean? So if we finish 2nd and get promoted do we 'just about get promoted' and if so, how is that any different to getting promoted?

My reputation for being a 'bruce lover' or whatever the F you want to call it is being borne out of stuff like this, I will happily concede on many of SB's misgivings but when people are just making up crap to suit their argument I cannot sit back idly.

There's no recognition of the fact that we were 22nd in this division when he took over

There's no recognition of the fact that we've had one fit striker for the past x amount of weeks

There's no recognition that in Kodjia and Terry, we've lost 2 of if not the 2 most influential players in the team

There's no recognition of the fact that our club was rotten before SB came in, sure the arrival of Xia helped a little but given that we were in 22nd and not able to win a game for love nor money should tell you all was far from rosey

There's no recognition of the fact that, whether you want to admit it or not, we are actually doing pretty well in terms of results and league placing, could be doing better for sure but how many teams couldn't say that

There's just no recognition.

Just lots of noise about whah whah whah Man City keep the ball all game why can't we?!?! Oh we're aston villa we should be obliterating everyone just by turning up. Any Manager will do better - guess what, we've tried other Managers and they haven't done better over the years.

 

It is pointless, us continuing dialogue, we're obviously on different planets.

[bannedfromHandV]

5 minutes ago, srsmithusa said:

honestly, I could recap what I consider perfectly valid examples of where SB has bought players with good records and utilized them poorly, and (unsurprisingly to me) they have not done nearly as well here as before he signed them.

But we both know that list won't change your mind.  So I'm going to pass.

Look, I accept that some of the buys have been bad, where we differ is I don't blame SB entirely for them, others, including the players themselves have to take responsibility.

Can you not accept that sometimes, buying a player just doesn't work out well, nothing overly sinister in it, just doesn't work out?

[handsworthvilla]

2 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Oh okay, let's just scatter a few more million whilst we're at it and since when did we start factoring in signing on fees? When evaluating a Managers spend it's generally done so on transfers. I notice you've not bothered to include any of the outgoings either which bring the net spend down significantly.

Everything you write as an agenda to it, "to be sitting just about 5th" - what does just about mean? So if we finish 2nd and get promoted do we 'just about get promoted' and if so, how is that any different to getting promoted?

My reputation for being a 'bruce lover' or whatever the F you want to call it is being borne out of stuff like this, I will happily concede on many of SB's misgivings but when people are just making up crap to suit their argument I cannot sit back idly.

There's no recognition of the fact that we were 22nd in this division when he took over

There's no recognition of the fact that we've had one fit striker for the past x amount of weeks

There's no recognition that in Kodjia and Terry, we've lost 2 of if not the 2 most influential players in the team

There's no recognition of the fact that our club was rotten before SB came in, sure the arrival of Xia helped a little but given that we were in 22nd and not able to win a game for love nor money should tell you all was far from rosey

There's no recognition of the fact that, whether you want to admit it or not, we are actually doing pretty well in terms of results and league placing, could be doing better for sure but how many teams couldn't say that

There's just no recognition.

Just lots of noise about whah whah whah Man City keep the ball all game why can't we?!?! Oh we're aston villa we should be obliterating everyone just by turning up. Any Manager will do better - guess what, we've tried other Managers and they haven't done better over the years.

 

It is pointless, us continuing dialogue, we're obviously on different planets.

Agreed. He is making the "evidence" fit his already established theory, rather than developing a theory based on the evidence. 

Although, in this instance maybe I'm giving too much credit. When you decide to start "scatter" a few more million over transfer fee's to artificially inflate them then you really are working to an agenda. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

Come on people we all know you have to have top players to play the Pep way. I don't think anybody is asking for that.

Id just be happy to watch some games where I'm not bored to tears. Like the QPR game. 

[Paddywhack]

22 hours ago, TRO said:

Don't leave me on my own

You're not alone with your opinions, a lot of us just gave up about 6 months ago. 

[Demitri_C]

24 minutes ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

Carry on with that notion through the 2nd half of the season will see us around mid table.

The losses and draws that alot of you keep ignoring is that they where winnable games bar 2 of them.

Polish the turd all you like but it just ain't flushing.

Turn the loses and draws into more wins and the odd draw, play the players correctly in the 'Aston Villa way' and I am sure all of us will be happy and be off Bruce's back.

The "ASTON VILLA WAY" has been losing and failing for  a number of years. This is the first season we are consistently winning games and looking defensively solid. Our Villa Park record has been a joke overt he last few years and we have only lost 3 league games at Villa Park since Bruce took over.

With respect there is no point us debating this subject anymore as you clearly have your opinion on Bruce and I dont see that changing regardless how he performs 

 

[AvfcRigo82]

4 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Oh okay, let's just scatter a few more million whilst we're at it and since when did we start factoring in signing on fees? When evaluating a Managers spend it's generally done so on transfers. I notice you've not bothered to include any of the outgoings either which bring the net spend down significantly.

So lets ignore they exist and take off signing on fees it still equates to a massive outlay for this league.

Everything you write as an agenda to it, "to be sitting just about 5th" - what does just about mean? So if we finish 2nd and get promoted do we 'just about get promoted' and if so, how is that any different to getting promoted?

We are not sitting in 5th 8pts clear of 6th are we? We can easily be caught and over taken in one result!

My reputation for being a 'bruce lover' or whatever the F you want to call it is being borne out of stuff like this, I will happily concede on many of SB's misgivings but when people are just making up crap to suit their argument I cannot sit back idly.

There's no recognition of the fact that we were 22nd in this division when he took over. 

Oh there most definately is and he was given hefty £££ to sort the problem.

There's no recognition of the fact that we've had one fit striker for the past x amount of weeks

He only has one because Kodja is injured, he was adamant on keeping Agbonlahor here, one he has destroyed all confidence to, the Kid is nakered and the other one is the other side of the planet!

Everyone has seen what an almighty **** up waiting to happen that has been since August!

There's no recognition that in Kodjia and Terry, we've lost 2 of if not the 2 most influential players in the team

Bruce brought Samba for this very scenario we all recognise that, and so Kodja being out too we can no longer focus and revert back to relying on Kodja again.

There's no recognition of the fact that our club was rotten before SB came in, sure the arrival of Xia helped a little but given that we were in 22nd and not able to win a game for love nor money should tell you all was far from rosey

There's no recognition of the fact that, whether you want to admit it or not, we are actually doing pretty well in terms of results and league placing, could be doing better for sure but how many teams couldn't say that

There's just no recognition.

Just lots of noise about whah whah whah Man City keep the ball all game why can't we?!?! Oh we're aston villa we should be obliterating everyone just by turning up. Any Manager will do better - guess what, we've tried other Managers and they haven't done better over the years.

If the noise bothers you then maybe turn down the volume.

Just to add that there is also recognition for Albert Adomah - the player Bruce was forced to play because of selection issues and injuries and it turns out so far that without his goals we would be nowhere near 'just about 5th'.. but a lot lower to the place where Bruce picked us up from.

It is pointless, us continuing dialogue, we're obviously on different planets.

You couldn't have put it any better.

Especially when you accuse people of having hidden agendas and you deliberately take things out of context in order to progress your argument perhaps?

You leave me thinking what kind of victory you are out to seek but it is something I will leave you to continue to find it. 

 

[AvfcRigo82]

21 minutes ago, handsworthvilla said:

Agreed. He is making the "evidence" fit his already established theory, rather than developing a theory based on the evidence. 

Although, in this instance maybe I'm giving too much credit. When you decide to start "scatter" a few more million over transfer fee's to artificially inflate them then you really are working to an agenda. 

Not at all.

Nothing is added and what's with the craze of people having agendas? WTF?

It is called opinion and debate.. often than not some get heated!

[AvfcRigo82]

6 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

The "ASTON VILLA WAY" has been losing and failing for  a number of years. This is the first season we are consistently winning games and looking defensively solid. Our Villa Park record has been a joke overt he last few years and we have only lost 3 league games at Villa Park since Bruce took over.

With respect there is no point us debating this subject anymore as you clearly have your opinion on Bruce and I dont see that changing regardless how he performs 

 

Eyes don't lie.

We will agree to disagree bit for me that our manager is just about keeping us in reach of promotion, It's **** ugly but some prefer it more than others it seems.

[Michael118]

For me it's not just the signings he's made which have been poor overall but also the players he's let go.

Amavi, Bacuna, Westwood, Cissokho, Kozak, Baker all could and should have been top players at this level. We've replaced a whole heap of misused, mismanaged, untapped potential with ageing and way past their best ex Premier League players, players with good statistical records, players with a doggedness about them but are lacking in actual quality or players Bruce trusts because he signed them previously. It's all massively lacking in invention and foresight. It appears as as though he's instilled 'reslience' but the way I see it is he's plugged holes in areas which didn't need to be plugged if a different approach was taken and as a result we're negative and not easy to watch but scraping wins laboriously. Even though we are winning a lot of my enjoyment has been taken out because apart from a few of the young players (O'Hare, Davis, McKirdy) I think the potential in the squad is far, far less than it was when Bruce took over and since we were relegated which is difficult to accept considering the amount of money that has been spent.

[bannedfromHandV]

5 minutes ago, Michael118 said:

For me it's not just the signings he's made which have been poor overall but also the players he's let go.

Amavi, Bacuna, Westwood, Cissokho, Kozak, Baker all could and should have been top players at this level. We've replaced a whole heap of misused, mismanaged, untapped potential with ageing and way past their best ex Premier League players, players with good statistical records, players with a doggedness about them but are lacking in actual quality or players Bruce trusts because he signed them previously. It's all massively lacking in invention and foresight. It appears as as though he's instilled 'reslience' but the way I see it is he's plugged holes in areas which didn't need to be plugged if a different approach was taken and as a result we're negative and not easy to watch but scraping wins laboriously. Even though we are winning a lot of my enjoyment has been taken out because apart from a few of the young players (O'Hare, Davis, McKirdy) I think the potential in the squad is far, far less than it was when Bruce took over and since we were relegated which is difficult to accept considering the amount of money that has been spent.

What in the flying F.

[handsworthvilla]

2 minutes ago, Michael118 said:

For me it's not just the signings he's made which have been poor overall but also the players he's let go.

Amavi, Bacuna, Westwood, Cissokho, Kozak, Baker all could and should have been top players at this level. We've replaced a whole heap of misused, mismanaged, untapped potential with ageing and way past their best ex Premier League players, players with good statistical records, players with a doggedness about them but are lacking in actual quality or players Bruce trusts because he signed them previously. It's all massively lacking in invention and foresight. It appears as as though he's instilled 'reslience' but the way I see it is he's plugged holes in areas which didn't need to be plugged if a different approach was taken and as a result we're negative and not easy to watch but scraping wins laboriously. Even though we are winning a lot of my enjoyment has been taken out because apart from a few of the young players (O'Hare, Davis, McKirdy) I think the potential in the squad is far, far less than it was when Bruce took over and since we were relegated which is difficult to accept considering the amount of money that has been spent.

This may be a little pedantic, but just to pick you up on your point that "even though we are winning a lot of my enjoyment has been taken out" ....

I see this point phrased differently by other posters also. I get the point you are making, ie; that we are winning but it is crap to watch. BUT I don't see how that can be any less enjoyable than what we have witnessed for at least the past 3 seasons. At least we are fairly consistently winning! 

If you are measuring the enjoyment levels of winning with a crap style (this season) vs losing and looking terrible pretty much every week (past 3 seasons) then surely logically you should be enjoying this season more, not less?! 

I understand frustrations around playing style but I don't get how anybody can be getting less enjoyment out of watching Villa than they have done over the past few years, it just doesn't make sense considering the upturn in results. 

[omariqy]

@BOF how are we doing in the top 10 v the rest table?

[bannedfromHandV]

He only has one because Kodja is injured, he was adamant on keeping Agbonlahor here, one he has destroyed all confidence to, the Kid is nakered and the other one is the other side of the planet!

Sorry, forgot he should have used his crystal ball to forecast injury to our best striker

I don't think he had any choice but to keep Agbonlahor, I'd love to know how and where you think we could have jettisoned him (without just terminating his contract and paying him off, which doesn't benefit us whatsoever)

Hogan's destroyed his own confidence with sub-par performances

The kid is nakered (sic) because of all of the above

McCormack is on the other side of the world because he's a complete waste of space (that Bruce inherited)

 

 

Especially when you accuse people of having hidden agendas and you deliberately take things out of context in order to progress your argument perhaps?

Hidden agenda, funniest thing I've read all day thanks. There's nothing hidden about it!

Pray tell, what I have taken out of context to progress my argument (coming from someone who just threw a few more million on to an already fabricated list of costs associated with transfers in order to try and make a point)

[Michael118]

7 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

What in the flying F.

Yep - all players who were far, far better than they ever showed while with us. 

[Grasshopper]

Re Bruce Derby Presser:

How can it be „good“ to have played all of the top 8 away (by new year), when Bruce will have us playing like the „away team“ when we play them at home?

[Michael118]

Actually I'd argue they did show it in patches but just weren't able to be at their best consistently.

 

[Michael118]

3 hours ago, handsworthvilla said:

This may be a little pedantic, but just to pick you up on your point that "even though we are winning a lot of my enjoyment has been taken out" ....

I see this point phrased differently by other posters also. I get the point you are making, ie; that we are winning but it is crap to watch. BUT I don't see how that can be any less enjoyable than what we have witnessed for at least the past 3 seasons. At least we are fairly consistently winning! 

If you are measuring the enjoyment levels of winning with a crap style (this season) vs losing and looking terrible pretty much every week (past 3 seasons) then surely logically you should be enjoying this season more, not less?! 

I understand frustrations around playing style but I don't get how anybody can be getting less enjoyment out of watching Villa than they have done over the past few years, it just doesn't make sense considering the upturn in results. 

I'm not that bothered that we are crap to watch to be honest. 

I watch to see Villa win and to see players with potential fulfill it especially ones which go under the radar.

I thought we had a lot of quality in the team which was relegated which we never came close to getting the best out of. 

I'm getting less enjoyment at the moment because I don't see the same potential in the current players or the manager.

We lost plenty of games under Lambert but from a squad point of view I thought most of the pieces of the puzzle were in place. The squad didn't need to be 'overhauled'.

If we had a manager like Allardyce from the beginning of 2015/16 instead of Sherwood we wouldn't have been in any danger of relegation and things would have turned out much differently.

Edited December 15, 2017 by Michael118