Steve Bruce

[hippo]

1 minute ago, Eastie said:

This is where we lack in my opinion - the likes of Warner and Nuno have came in and shown what can be done with no experience if this league - Round and Wnyess  went for the safe option in Bruce because they are both old school - football has changed and progressed , not sure that round and Wyness  have moved with it .

But we are where we are I don't see Wyness and Round having the knowledge to pluck an unknown who would work out for us. For every Nuno there is a Remi Garde. Most likely it would be Dean Smith - who IMO would crumble under the weight of expectation here. There is no consistent name everyone is calling for - it was Jovanic in September, now I think Smith would top the poll of feasible candidates ......

[Eastie]

32 minutes ago, hippo said:

But we are where we are I don't see Wyness and Round having the knowledge to pluck an unknown who would work out for us. For every Nuno there is a Remi Garde. Most likely it would be Dean Smith - who IMO would crumble under the weight of expectation here. There is no consistent name everyone is calling for - it was Jovanic in September, now I think Smith would top the poll of feasible candidates ......

I agree , maybe wyness and round are not the right men to be making the next appointment - if Bruce goes i have little faith they will find the next Warner or nuno - in fact I doubt they would even look beyond these shores, 

‘I fear failure this season will lead to considerable cost cutting in the summer and the job will not have the same appeal if we are looking to build with the youngsters , and no cash to spend .

More likely to end up with someone like mick McCarthy than a forward thinking young manager .

Edited December 19, 2017 by Eastie

[dn1982]

If Bruce gets Agnew that’ll be 3 experienced coaches who are basically assistants. No wonder we never get any new ideas. Too many cooks spring to mind. 

[striker]

2 hours ago, Eastie said:

I thought we were in the mix for automatic until this month started - however 2 points   from 9 coupled with other results now makes it far more unlikely and probably the play offs is the best hope now .

Fir the money spent under xia and Bruce spent a fair amount of it whatever he says anything other than a top 2 finish with the squad assembled is failure .

we are well adrift of a Cardiff side who have spent peanuts in comparison but who have a wily manager who has forged a style and team spirit which gets them results .

i can accept poor football if it brings results on this league - we are now facing 4 very tough games and I cannot see us taking even 6 points from them which could leave us around 10th by new year - we will see what the next fortnight brings but there can be no excuses for starting a game without a striker - he could have given gabby and hogan 30 minutes each if needed - he has mckirdy scoring for fun in the u23 side and o hare provides more creativity than onomah in my opinion .

we were beaten at Derby the moment the team was named - Bruce has got to throw caution to the wind and use his creative  players .

Should he be sacked now - probably not but he is is lucky he wasn’t fired in September - anything other than promotion and he must be gone , however failure this season will mean a very different team next season with our better players having to be sold I fear and a lot more  of the younger lads coming through - 

Very good post.

If promotion isn't achieved this season then I think Bruce will probably step aside before being pushed. Will look better in front of his media buddies and he will hint at a lack of investment at crucial times as the cause for failure to reach the Premiership. Nonsense of course but that's the way it will probably play out.

However while Villa are still in and around the playoff positions I wish Bruce would use the younger players coming through more. I thought Hayes looked very good when played as did O'Hare and before injury Lyden should have been given more game time instead of signing Whelan. Yes Bruce has given Davis and Green their chance but that was forced upon him.

It's like Bruce is doing everything by the book. In one of his interviews he implied that he didn't want to play too many of the young guns together. Generally that's sound management right out of the text book written years ago but if you have a team full of older legs which is showing signs of fatigue then using youthful exuberance who have the ability to hold their own for a couple of games isn't a bad idea and would the results over the last few games been any worse? 

Bruce's management style is stuck in a time warp of yesteryear prefering to play older experienced pros coming to the end of their careers because its the safe rather than the right option and Villa are suffering because of it.

Edited December 19, 2017 by striker

[striker]

23 minutes ago, dn1982 said:

If Bruce gets Agnew that’ll be 3 experienced coaches who are basically assistants. No wonder we never get any new ideas. Too many cooks spring to mind. 

Change one of those O's to a c and I'd totally agree with you.

[vreitti]

3 hours ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Bruce is manager so we are not getting promoted.

You know you're on to something here!?

Whilst I don't believe we could just exchange Bruce with anybody, that'd automatically lead to promotion, I do honestly think we won't ever get promoted with him in charge. I'm forever grateful he's seemingly stopped 'the rot', whatever that was. I can't even precisely pinpoint what he's actually done, but we are now solid as a team, and do not crumble at the first sight of a setback, e.g. conceding a goal. 

At the same time I just feel he should've already done a lot MORE. We've reached a point where he isn't able to further develop the team as things stand, considering FFP restrictions, etc. He's taken us as far as he possibly could IMHO. I'm pretty sure he's disappointed himself, but I think it's evident his long term 'strategy' isn't going to work, when he isn't capable of developing the playing style. Give him £100M and he'll probably improve us again, but so would anybody else. And I'd rather we gamble on someone else, not that we can spend that amount. 

Sadly it is time to part ways, but Bruce deserves credit for laying down a solid foundation for someone else to build something extraordinary, and take us back where we belong. 

UTV

Edited December 19, 2017 by vreitti

[TRO]

3 hours ago, DCJonah said:

I think you're making this up. I've not read posts where people claim ANYBODY could do better or that sacking him means promotion. 

You're creating made up posts to defend your position of constantly defending him. 

That's absurd. 

He doesn't always defend him.

[Grasshopper]

to meIt looks like Bruce is massing his way to being unsackable.

All the time he‘s on a 1yr rolling contract, however good or bad he does, he‘ll always get a payoff.

Wyness & Round targeted him so they are standing by him. All Bruce has to do is keep „the possibility of promotion within reach“ for them to keep backing him and blind Tony with  the „we are experienced guys, we know what we are doing“ mantra.

Meanwhile, Bruce surrounds himself with his „boys“ keeping the „jobs for the boys“ chain in tact.

It starts with Wyness -> Round -> Bruce -> Agnew -> Clements -> Calderwood and god knows who else.

Tony is confronted with a „Sack One - Sack all“ senario. We are on the ffp borderline, Sacking that lot more than likely sends us over the edge. So it‘s in for a penny, in for a pound.

We‘ve had this before with Lerner and we have it again with Xia. Lerner was too stupid as a business man to correct his own mistakes.

DrT will need some almighty big balls to disturb the nice little nest that Bruce has around him. Those above and below him are dependant on him for keeping them in a job. AND thats what it is A JOB, paid hansomely.

None of Wyness, Round, Bruce, Agnew, Clements or Calderwood are Villans at heart. They are all more than likely well aware that this is „as good as it gets“ for them. So they‘ll ALL cling on for dear life.

One only has to ask oneself.

Where do any of them go from here?

Nowhere. When they fail at this job, they are all done in football at PL & Ch level.

When they‘ve all been shipped out, what will we have left?

1 - An owner with his hands tied by ffp (regardless if anyone thinks he has money or not)

2 - no staff or players to even maintain a status quo

3 - a half empty stadium of disillusioned fans

DrT would only get a percentage amount of Capital Assets value, because, no-one would have the money or dream to take us on

In the meantime all we have is Shit Bruce-Ball as our spectacle

[DCJonah]

2 hours ago, lexicon said:

A lot can happen in 4 games. It's an absolutely abysmal run for all teams involved as there are far too many in such a short space of time. The Championship is nowhere near as cut and dry as some seem to make out. 

It can, but as it's been shown, it's very difficult to close the huge gaps we've seen appear under Bruce. 

[AvfcRigo82]

1 hour ago, hippo said:

There is no consistent name everyone is calling for - it was Jovanic in September, now I think Smith would top the poll of feasible candidates ......

I dunno you know.. I was mentioning Rafa constantly and I still maintain he is the man for the job.

At the time he had got Newcastle up to about 6th and deemed out of reach, but now again in the bottom 3 I think we should consider him again.

[Dave J]

3 hours ago, lexicon said:

A lot can happen in 4 games. It's an absolutely abysmal run for all teams involved as there are far too many in such a short space of time. The Championship is nowhere near as cut and dry as some seem to make out. 

I honestly can’t see anyone popping Wolves to the title - they are a cut above anyone imo 

[TRO]

11 minutes ago, Dave J said:

I honestly can’t see anyone popping Wolves to the title - they are a cut above anyone imo 

I can't see them pipping them to it either.

[sheepyvillian]

2 hours ago, hippo said:

But we are where we are I don't see Wyness and Round having the knowledge to pluck an unknown who would work out for us. For every Nuno there is a Remi Garde. Most likely it would be Dean Smith - who IMO would crumble under the weight of expectation here. There is no consistent name everyone is calling for - it was Jovanic in September, now I think Smith would top the poll of feasible candidates ......

I'll  take  Smith's football and enthusiasm, yes it's a gamble ,but anything is better than the turgid trollop our current manager is implementing .  Smith also seem to have Hogan firing on all cylinders ,whilst he was at Brentford. Who knows  he might take us straight back up at his first attempt, which I don't have much confidence in the present manager doing ,,tbh ..

[Grasshopper]

When this season is over and we are stuck in this league for next and many more seasons, we can thank Bruce and his backers (those keeping him in a job/too scared to sack him) for wasting a one time only golden chance to return to the PL

The football

the decisions

have been awful, wasteful, havent worked and wont work.

From next season on ffp has us in an ever decreasing financial restriction with 3 teams relegated every season from the PL with the financial pull that we blew

Every year 3 teams come down and have 3 years of more money than us. When they blow it, they will become just another „us“ looking up at the next 3 who come down who have another 3 years of more money......... ad infinitum

rinse and repeat

All for the love of Bruce-Ball, 4 promotions, he‘s British..........ad infinitum

[sheepyvillian]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

I can't see them pipping them to it either.

That's what a good coach does ,creates a positive sense of certainty. 

[TRO]

1 hour ago, striker said:

Very good post.

If promotion isn't achieved this season then I think Bruce will probably step aside before being pushed. Will look better in front of his media buddies and he will hint at a lack of investment at crucial times as the cause for failure to reach the Premiership. Nonsense of course but that's the way it will probably play out.

However while Villa are still in and around the playoff positions I wish Bruce would use the younger players coming through more. I thought Hayes looked very good when played as did O'Hare and before injury Lyden should have been given more game time instead of signing Whelan. Yes Bruce has given Davis and Green their chance but that was forced upon him.

It's like Bruce is doing everything by the book. In one of his interviews he implied that he didn't want to play too many of the young guns together. Generally that's sound management right out of the text book written years ago but if you have a team full of older legs which is showing signs of fatigue then using youthful exuberance who have the ability to hold their own for a couple of games isn't a bad idea and would the results over the last few games been any worse? 

Bruce's management style is stuck in a time warp of yesteryear prefering to play older experienced pros coming to the end of their careers because its the safe rather than the right option and Villa are suffering because of it.

Yours is too.....yes i think he will go if he fails to get us up this season.

I too would like to see more of the younger players, but I think its a dilemma.......do you go with youthful exuberance and a bit of inexperience or older heads, but slower legs.

I guess the smart money is on a bit of both.

However, we have seen in recent weeks a couple of young players form dip with the weight of responsibility....its tricky......but "fortune favours the brave"

Edited December 19, 2017 by TRO

[Eastie]

1 hour ago, AvfcRigo82 said:

I dunno you know.. I was mentioning Rafa constantly and I still maintain he is the man for the job.

At the time he had got Newcastle up to about 6th and deemed out of reach, but now again in the bottom 3 I think we should consider him again.

Not a chance in hell Rafa would come here with no money left to spend .

The time to attract a quality manager was summer 16 with loads of cash to spend but xia hung his hat on RDM and millions were pissed down the drain as  result 

Edited December 19, 2017 by Eastie

[vreitti]

9 minutes ago, Eastie said:

Not a chance in hell Rafa would come here with no money left to spend .

The time to attract a quality manager was summer 16 with loads of cash to spend but xia hung his hat on RDM and millions were pissed down the drain as  result 

RDM didn't piss away millions. Neither has Bruce. Both spent too much on strikers with proven records in this league, and we all know strikers always cost a little extra. 

We still have a wealth of good players, and someone else might yet be able to rekindle both Hogan and RMC. Won't happen with Bruce though.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, vreitti said:

You know you're on to something here!?

Whilst I don't believe we could just exchange Bruce with anybody, that'd automatically lead to promotion, I do honestly think we won't ever get promoted with him in charge. I'm forever grateful he's seemingly stopped 'the rot', whatever that was. I can't even precisely pinpoint what he's actually done, but we are now solid as a team, and do not crumble at the first sight of a setback, e.g. conceding a goal. 

At the same time I just feel he should've already done a lot MORE. We've reached a point where he isn't able to further develop the team as things stand, considering FFP restrictions, etc. He's taken us as far as he possibly could IMHO. I'm pretty sure he's disappointed himself, but I think it's evident his long term 'strategy' isn't going to work, when he isn't capable of developing the playing style. Give him £100M and he'll probably improve us again, but so would anybody else. And I'd rather we gamble on someone else, not that we can spend that amount. 

Sadly it is time to part ways, but Bruce deserves credit for laying down a solid foundation for someone else to build something extraordinary, and take us back where we belong. 

UTV

• It was 3 wins in a season in the Prem
• It was 4 wins in 18 Months
• It was 1 league win in 11 games before he arrived.

I think that was pretty much a well rooted ROT.

for some discerning fans it was the Apocalypse. 

Edited December 19, 2017 by TRO

[Grasshopper]

6 minutes ago, Eastie said:

Not a chance in hell Rafa would come here with no money left to spend .

The time to attract a quality manager was summer 16 with loads of cash to spend but xia hung his hat on RDM and millions were pissed down the drain as  result 

I think we can safely say

RDM pissed Millions up the wall (not all of it - JC, Jedi, Adomah, Kodjia for example)

Bruce Pissed our talent down the drain (too many to mention)