Steve Bruce

[DCJonah]

3 hours ago, bobzy said:

Because it clearly wasn’t the plan.

 

I enjoy the idea that whatever the players do = managers’ plan. 

What because you say it wasn't the plan means it wasn't the plan? Don't know how you can say such a thing with absolute certainty. 

I love the the idea that seasoned, international players, who have played in massive games now can't handle the Birmingham derby at St Andrews, completely panic and ignore all instructions. 

And i love the idea that if this did happen, the manager, whose instructions were ignored for an entire half then does nothing to change it at HT. 

 

[bobzy]

3 hours ago, Keyblade said:

I honestly have no idea what you're trying to say here bro.

Are you implying that it wasn't Bruce's plan to play hoofball today, and it was all if the players' volition? Ignoring the fact that this has been our default way of approaching away games and assuming this to be true, does Bruce not shoulder the blame for the players not playing according to 'plan'?

How does the manager shoulder blame for players not playing the way he wants them to? When Hourihane passes straight to Jota did you think “oh **** sake Steve, why is Conor doing that?”.

We haven’t been playing “hoofball” for the past few games. If he wanted us to play that way, he wouldn’t have setup with one striker and a 5-man midfield.

[DaveAV1]

20 minutes ago, bobzy said:

How does the manager shoulder blame for players not playing the way he wants them to? When Hourihane passes straight to Jota did you think “oh **** sake Steve, why is Conor doing that?”.

We haven’t been playing “hoofball” for the past few games. If he wanted us to play that way, he wouldn’t have setup with one striker and a 5-man midfield.

Are you suggesting that the players ignore the manager’s instructions? Has he therefore lost the dressing room?

[DCJonah]

12 minutes ago, bobzy said:

It’s almost like a different atmosphere and more pressure would involve panicking or mistakes or something. Like Enckleman. Or Dublin. Or Hourihane’s pass. Or Johnstone’s clearance. Or a general “get rid” as a defensive approach. But I know none of these things happen because players are professionals.

I agree he could’ve/should’ve changed it at HT.  He didn’t. He changed it later and it almost paid off. It’s almost like you think I’m a fan of the manager - I’m not. I’m just not blindly anti-Bruce.

I get it, though. He cannot do anything right for you and anything negative is Steve Bruce’s doing.  Pointless discussing otherwise. Players were blameless today - everything was down to Bruce. 

I don't disagree that it can lead to the odd panic moment from an individual.  I don't agree that experienced players, who have played in much bigger games, will panic so much that they ignore the managers plan for the majority if the game. 

Well I've given him credit for getting us in the top 6 so quickly after an appalling start and its a decent point to continue our good form. Players were not blameless, onomah was awful all game. 

You don't seem interested in the discussion either, you've claimed you know what the plan was and then got annoyed with anyone who disagreed. 

[bobzy]

2 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

Are you suggesting that the players ignore the manager’s instructions? Has he therefore lost the dressing room?

No - I think that a derby day atmosphere has caused vast amount of our players to panic and underperform. In fact, probably as expected, the more experienced players were our better ones (Whelan, Terry). 

[bobzy]

2 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

You don't seem interested in the discussion either, you've claimed you know what the plan was and then got annoyed with anyone who disagreed. 

I haven’t at all claimed to know what the plan was - just that it wasn’t hoofball.

Or maybe, to phrase it better, if it was hoofball then we setup entirely wrong for it and literally anyone could see that. So, given that Steve Bruce is a football manager and has been around the game for a while, I don’t believe he would’ve set us up the way he did to have his defence just lump the ball forward.

In any case, this game is different to any other game we’ll play. It’s far more telling what happens in other matches - just arguably not as important to the fans. 

[DCJonah]

5 minutes ago, bobzy said:

No - I think that a derby day atmosphere has caused vast amount of our players to panic and underperform. In fact, probably as expected, the more experienced players were our better ones (Whelan, Terry). 

Our experienced players played the most long balls today (according to stats) so did they or did they not panic and ignore the managers instructions?

Elmo - 9 long balls

Hutton- 9 long balls

Terry - 5 long balls

Whelan - 4 long balls. 

[bobzy]

Just now, DCJonah said:

Our experienced players played the most long balls today (according to stats) so did they or did they not panic and ignore the managers instructions?

Elmo - 9 long balls

Hutton- 9 long balls

Terry - 5 long balls

Whelan - 4 long balls. 

What’s the difference between hoofball and a long ball?

[DCJonah]

3 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I haven’t at all claimed to know what the plan was - just that it wasn’t hoofball.

Or maybe, to phrase it better, if it was hoofball then we setup entirely wrong for it and literally anyone could see that. So, given that Steve Bruce is a football manager and has been around the game for a while, I don’t believe he would’ve set us up the way he did to have his defence just lump the ball forward.

In any case, this game is different to any other game we’ll play. It’s far more telling what happens in other matches - just arguably not as important to the fans. 

Why? He's never set a team up wrong before? It wasn't that long ago when we went 3 at the back against Bristol City  

 

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, bobzy said:

What’s the difference between hoofball and a long ball?

Not sure what your point is. Who were the players that you think fell apart and couldn't follow instructions then? 

Because these were the players that attempted the most long balls. 

[villa89]

Just saw his post match interview, he thinks a draw today is a good result. I disagree, strongly. 

[KJT123]

I'm not against long ball football. I am against playing long ball football using the wrong system. Hoofing it at Kodjia for 90 minutes is never going to work.

[Demitri_C]

5 hours ago, av1 said:

Because rather than just looking at the league table some of us look at things like budget, squad depth and performance. 

Cardiff have spent £2m since Warnock took over. 

Blues have been a joke for years.

Leeds had a narcissist chairman who played russian roulette with his managers.

Can we stop with this nonsense about the mess Bruce inherited? He inherited the wealthiest squad in the league. Broke a tranfer record on Hogan, spent a king ransom in wages on Terry Hurihane and Lansbury. Working for a new chairman and little reminence left from the 5 yrs that preceeded him. 

There isn't a manager in the championship thst wouldn't crawl through shit to inherit the same "mess"

17m of that was on McCormack and  tishbola though who none bruce has used

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, KJT123 said:

I'm not against long ball football. I am against playing long ball football using the wrong system. Hoofing it at Kodjia for 90 minutes is never going to work.

I agree to some extent. Onomah was pushed so far forward he wasn't really playing as a 3rd midfield player. So if that's the case we should have put Davis upfront with kodjia.

[penguin]

25 minutes ago, villarocker said:

I'll tell you where I'm at: 

Bruce should concentrate more on what our attackers can do than the opponents'. 

Yes. 

Our whole gameplay is geared around negating the opposition rather than being progressive and opposing ourselves on them on the front foot. With the players and resources at our disposal, easily on paper one of the most talented teams in the division, the amount of games we've surrendered the impetus to our opponents is piss poor.

[bobzy]

18 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Not sure what your point is. Who were the players that you think fell apart and couldn't follow instructions then? 

Because these were the players that attempted the most long balls. 

Well a long ball down the line isn’t a hoof persay whereas a mindless hack away would be. A long ball to a player could be a pass rather than a hoof. etc etc

So how many were hoofs rather than long balls? Or is every long ball a “hoof”?

[TrentVilla]

28 minutes ago, villa89 said:

Just saw his post match interview, he thinks a draw today is a good result. I disagree, strongly. 

I think it probably was a good point given that it was a derby and we could easily have lost.

Poor performance but decent point.

 

[turvontour]

Its a good job that we dont have more derby games or we'd have to settle for a point more often.

Blues are a relegation standard team.

[peterms]

Oh dear, that was poor.  Saw about two thirds of it on a tablet in a car, arrived at the relatives and was too embarrassed to find an excuse to watch the rest.

Caught the results at the end and was pleasantly surprised.   I really thought we were going to lose, even against that bunch of muppets.

We're not going foward, are we?

[villa89]

31 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

I think it probably was a good point given that it was a derby and we could easily have lost.

Poor performance but decent point.

I see your point in that Blues were the better team and Jota should have scored for them after Hourihane's attempted assist. But it's the level acceptance from Bruce that irked me. He should have been livid with that performance and the hoofing. He wasn't and the fact that it was a derby was his ready made excuse for that tripe that we served up today.