villakram Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 1 hour ago, Eastie said: Veretout is playing at old trafford.. ohhh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 55 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said: Not for me. There's 2 occasions that stand out in my mind this week that specifically show Baker does not want to play that way. The first was against Ipswich when he had the ball and he's gesturing for Green to go down the line to play him in. For whatever reason, Green would not go down the line and Baker had to play the ball over the top to force him to. That's 100% on Green. Then against Barnsley, Baker has the ball and is standing there gesturing with his arms for someone to show for it he turned back to play it to the keeper, who was then cut off, so ends up just hoofing it down the field and then throws his arms in the air. Neither of those are on Baker. One is a winger forgetting how to play as a winger, the other is laziness from the rest of the team. Baker does play some long balls, but they clearly aren't "hoof balls" as he's playing them in the channel for Kodjia/Hogan. A hoof ball does not fall in to the path of an onrunning player, that's just a pass. To be honest I don't think Baker's distribution has ever been very high in his list of attributes. Defensively he's pretty decent, but picking a pass is not the reason he's on the pitch regardless of what's going on in front of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 It isn't, but I think it's irrelevant. He's clearly looking for a pass and even telling people what to do, they just don't show for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: Are you really trying to say Lansbury playing a "long ball" is the same thing as Nathan Baker hoofing it? I'm not denying Bruce might tell his players to be direct. That is not the same thing as "Bakes, when you get the ball, if there's a pass on, just ignore it, and hoof it up the pitch as far as you can. There's a good lad" Well I don't think anyone has suggested that final phrase is what's said. I can well imagine Bruce instructing his players to look for that direct pass as their first thought, so baker isn't going to get the ball and look for 2 or 3 short options. And it's why lansbury is averaging more long balls. Bruce clearly isn't instructing his players for intricate passing build up play through the midfield. If he is then he's a massive failure or the players have no respect for him. Edited February 16, 2017 by DCJonah 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bretonvilla Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 1 hour ago, terrytini said: Well that largely boils down to saying that your belief in him is due to the success he's had in the past. But he's had failure too ? Just as he had proved he is a winner he had proved he is a loser. Surely you accept a Manager can be right for one club at one time but not for another ( or even the same one) at another time ? From the evidence of what he had actually done WHILST HERE what has he done that gives that faith in him ? You point to his results when he came in - but they were associated with poor performances too - his style of play meant we were reliant on odd moments of skill from players. If you disagree I'd love to hear which performances you thought showed promise ! Im as keen as anyone that we stick with a guy but there has to be EVIDENCE of something working. As for missing Jedi I think it's a great big whopping red herring. Yes he makes a difference but our football was awful when he played too. If we were Chelsea in the Champions League maybe a holding midfielder would be a big neccesity but in the Championship ? How many of the teams we've played have one ? And isn't it the job of a manager to come up with something else if someone is missing ? The whole debate to me seems to distill to whether you think we have a load of clueless players or one Manager with the wrong idea for this team. Blaming the players never cut much ice with me. They are as good as any in the League. But EVERY manager who has been ,or will be associated with us will have a chequered past . Our future manager , when the time comes will be the same . The size of the pile of shit Bruce has inherited is enormous . I'll tolerate survive all this year to see progress next year . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 We all need a reality check ,we think we are still a big club unfortunately those days are long gone we have been playing like a poor side for 6 seasons now and haven't won a trophy in 20 years .We have been a joke shop 6 managers in 18 months turnover of over 40 players ,no club will have success with that carry on .We need to build a team the only way we can that is stick with a manager for the time it will take to build a proper side and 20 games and 6 months is nowhere near long enough to do that .I know you make your own luck but we haven't had any this year injuries African nations cup etc we haven't been able to put out our best side at any stage and due to us being poor for so long the pressure is getting to players the fans are weighing heavy on them they are afraid to make mistakes they just get rid of the ball as soon as they get it anywhere will do the only way that will change is confidence and that will only happen with the fans behind the players and manager ,I don't think Bruce is the best manager in the world but he as sure as hell know how to promote a team and he will get us there aswell given the chance we will turn the corner he needs time we will get there I'm positive we have the right man . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USA_Villa Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Deja Vu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 21 minutes ago, USA_Villa said: Deja Vu This has been posted before. It was a fans opinion and she wrote his managerial obituary. Trouble is that it was six years ago since when he has had two promotions and got to a cup final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 20 minutes ago, markavfc40 said: This has been posted before. It was a fans opinion and she wrote his managerial obituary. Trouble is that it was six years ago since when he has had two promotions and got to a cup final. How many relegations has he had? Pretty much every single point in that article from 6 years ago could be applied to AVFC under Bruce, every single thing. E is a shambles of a manager who will be outgoing by any half decent manager. I am sure if he had spent his playing career at Norwich rather than Man It's he wouldn't be given half the amount of leeway he gets from the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 48 minutes ago, BigAl said: We all need a reality check ,we think we are still a big club unfortunately those days are long gone we have been playing like a poor side for 6 seasons now and haven't won a trophy in 20 years .We have been a joke shop 6 managers in 18 months turnover of over 40 players ,no club will have success with that carry on .We need to build a team the only way we can that is stick with a manager for the time it will take to build a proper side and 20 games and 6 months is nowhere near long enough to do that .I know you make your own luck but we haven't had any this year injuries African nations cup etc we haven't been able to put out our best side at any stage and due to us being poor for so long the pressure is getting to players the fans are weighing heavy on them they are afraid to make mistakes they just get rid of the ball as soon as they get it anywhere will do the only way that will change is confidence and that will only happen with the fans behind the players and manager ,I don't think Bruce is the best manager in the world but he as sure as hell know how to promote a team and he will get us there aswell given the chance we will turn the corner he needs time we will get there I'm positive we have the right man . The African Nations Cup was a stroke of bad luck? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 HavIng cooled down in the cold light of day after Tuesday's defeat I think Bruce will be given more time even if lose the next 2 games - it would need a thrashing in both and probably at home to Bristol city as well for there to be any slight chance of him going at this stage - I hope he does turn things around because on paper the players are decent and if we can get them playing to their ablility we could still be a decent team . my anger towards Bruce has subsided somewhat but he does need results soon . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bretonvilla Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 15 minutes ago, mykeyb said: How many relegations has he had? Pretty much every single point in that article from 6 years ago could be applied to AVFC under Bruce, every single thing. E is a shambles of a manager who will be outgoing by any half decent manager. I am sure if he had spent his playing career at Norwich rather than Man It's he wouldn't be given half the amount of leeway he gets from the media. Who would you replace him with ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Czechlad Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 If in March we still don't have a win, I think we gotta sack him. Newcastle is probably a loss no matter what, but I hope we at least give them a good game. Derby and Bristol on the other hand we have to be winning. So yes, if we are in march with 0 wins from 2017, Bruce has to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 I don't think we can sack him until the end of the season, but he should be out shortly after. If we are still in this league I would then look at Wagner or Houghton if either fail to gain promotion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAl Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 22 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said: The African Nations Cup was a stroke of bad luck? Our best player at the time Kodjia left for a month every other year it isn't played we were unlucky that a player in form was playing in it this year . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Upper north stander Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 2 hours ago, villakram said: Veretout is playing at old trafford.. And he's having a quality game.... He looks exactly like what we need in our midfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Just now, BigAl said: Our best player at the time Kodjia left for a month every other year it isn't played we were unlucky that a player in form was playing in it this year . Yeah but we bought him with the intention of him being a good player and paid a lot of money for him, with that in mind there was a good chance he'd be off to the ANC. It wasn't really bad luck. However since we knew he had been picked, I think we should have tried to keep Gestede until later in the window. Perhaps that just wasn't possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Field Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Upper north stander said: And he's having a quality game.... He looks exactly like what we need in our midfield He would not work the way Bruce uses our midfielders. Veretout is not a defender. No creative midfielder or attacking midfielder in the world, will do well for us with Bruce in charge. Edited February 16, 2017 by Chicken Field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, terrytini said: Well that largely boils down to saying that your belief in him is due to the success he's had in the past. But he's had failure too ? Just as he had proved he is a winner he had proved he is a loser. Surely you accept a Manager can be right for one club at one time but not for another ( or even the same one) at another time ? From the evidence of what he had actually done WHILST HERE what has he done that gives that faith in him ? You point to his results when he came in - but they were associated with poor performances too - his style of play meant we were reliant on odd moments of skill from players. If you disagree I'd love to hear which performances you thought showed promise ! Im as keen as anyone that we stick with a guy but there has to be EVIDENCE of something working. As for missing Jedi I think it's a great big whopping red herring. Yes he makes a difference but our football was awful when he played too. If we were Chelsea in the Champions League maybe a holding midfielder would be a big neccesity but in the Championship ? How many of the teams we've played have one ? And isn't it the job of a manager to come up with something else if someone is missing ? The whole debate to me seems to distill to whether you think we have a load of clueless players or one Manager with the wrong idea for this team. Blaming the players never cut much ice with me. They are as good as any in the League. Well, he had 41% win ratio when he came in and yes the results were unconvincing, nut I would take them all day long now. Terry, you ask for my opinion and I give it , if you did agree or think that that reasons given hold no water, fine....I do. Alan McInally has now come out now and said what a massive repair job it is and Steve is the right man to fix it.....but that does'nt matter, because you have your mind made up. If you think, what managers have done in the past is immaterial, I'm not sure what to say to at, other than piffle......most get appointed at every club on that important aspect. You won't be convinced, so just wait for the time when we win or he walks to relieve some pain.....as for Jedinak, it's more of what impact his work has on other players as opposed to what he does himself.....but if you can't see that I can't help. The fact he has not been on a losing side for us , I guess is immaterial too. ps Its not my job to try and convince any fan or attempt to change their opinion...folk will make their own minds up. pps I spoke to a season ticket holder today who has not missed a game this year and he said to me......its the amount of change that's the problem....I said do you think he will be sacked.....he retorted, if he is I'm finished with the club, because it's not his fault. mixed opinions as you can see. Edited February 16, 2017 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted February 16, 2017 Share Posted February 16, 2017 Anyone here know if Bruce is a Batman fan? (He has the name for it.) Or is "batten down the hatches" a commonly used football term in England? He's used it on two different occasions in the span of a few days now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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