Steve Bruce

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

And so the war of attrition rages on....

[andym]

Bruce has had 18 games, we have scored just 19 goals, and got 26 points. 19 goals, given we've had some of the better attacking players in the league, and only 6 of the games have been against teams in the top 10. 9 have been against teams currently below us, and we have also played the 3 teams immediately above us.

Warnock took over Cardiff at a similar time - 19 games, 28 points and 27 goals.

Mclaren took over Derby at a similar time - 18 games, 36 points and 24 goals.

Both teams were in just as much of a mess as we were at the time.

Yes there are mitigating circumstances for Bruce, as he's working with a squad he inherited, but other managers have had the same, and have coped just as well, if not better. The lack of goals is pathetic, only 3 teams have the same or less than us this season.

Bruce needs to sort it out quickly now he has his own players in, there is no excuse not to be scoring a decent amount of goals in this league, the standard of defending is shit.

 

[PompeyVillan]

6 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

I still don't really care about "pretty" football.

I've made my views on that clear a hell of a lot.

Good football is a myth. Good football is winning football.

Big Sam, is that you?

Mind you, it's not either/or. Bournemouth and Swansea are good examples of overachieving clubs in recent years who play entertaining football (to me)

[weedman]

I agree that the good football thing is largely irrelevant if you're winning, it's only a thing if you're losing. If you lose playing well, you can say "at least we played well", but that's about it.

 

I remember our last minute 3-2 win against Everton with Ashley Young getting the winner - we were atrocious that match, 3 attacks and managed to score 3 goals and under the cosh for 90 mins - if we'd lost 4-0 it probably would have been fair, but no one cares because we won, and in the last minute too! Anyone remember Andi Weimann scoring that bizarre winner against Man City? Another game we were terrible in, and again, no one cares because we won, and against a team like Man City too! 

 

Remember the 1st game V Forest at VP earlier in the season? We battered them, had about 70% possession, 20 shots to 3, but drew 2-2. Does anyone care how well we played? Of course not, because we only drew against bloody Forest. 

 

Screw "good football", give me a season of matches like the Everton or City ones than a season of matches like Forest. We all want to win, good football is a bonus. If Mourinho came here now, we won every remaining match 1-0, got promoted, then won the PL with a season of 1-0 wins no one would care that we only have 28% possession and 5 shots on goal per match. 

 

Good managers always do the same thing with clubs, build from the back. Sort the defence out first, organise the team, then start allowing the creative players to express themselves once its sorted. 

[Stevo985]

54 minutes ago, PompeyVillan said:

Big Sam, is that you?

Mind you, it's not either/or. Bournemouth and Swansea are good examples of overachieving clubs in recent years who play entertaining football (to me)

I'm not saying I don't like what people usually consider "good football".

Ideally I'd want to see us play that way.

My point really is that I think too much value is put into it. 

Would people rather play like Swansea and finish mid table, or play like Mourinho's Chelsea and win the league?

 

The primary focus should be winning football matches. If th ebest way to do that is so called "good" football, then great. 

But I maintain that if a club is succesful then the fans won't care what style is being played, until you get to the absolute elite like Madrid and Bayern, who win so often that the fans have the luxury of caring what style of football is played.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Stevo985

[Kiwivillan]

1 hour ago, andym said:

Bruce has had 18 games, we have scored just 19 goals, and got 26 points. 19 goals, given we've had some of the better attacking players in the league, and only 6 of the games have been against teams in the top 10. 9 have been against teams currently below us, and we have also played the 3 teams immediately above us.

Warnock took over Cardiff at a similar time - 19 games, 28 points and 27 goals.

Mclaren took over Derby at a similar time - 18 games, 36 points and 24 goals.

Both teams were in just as much of a mess as we were at the time.

Yes there are mitigating circumstances for Bruce, as he's working with a squad he inherited, but other managers have had the same, and have coped just as well, if not better. The lack of goals is pathetic, only 3 teams have the same or less than us this season.

Bruce needs to sort it out quickly now he has his own players in, there is no excuse not to be scoring a decent amount of goals in this league, the standard of defending is shit.

 

I love evidence based arguments. You can't score goals of you sit back in away games and have no possession. The frequency of this is borderline criminal from a manager in this league. Some of the responses you get when pointing this out on AVFC related social media are ridiculous. "Don't be so fickle" "Give him a chance" "You're what's wrong with the club" "Why don't you go and support Chelsea" etc etc

[Grasshopper]

3 hours ago, weedman said:

I agree that the good football thing is largely irrelevant if you're winning, it's only a thing if you're losing. If you lose playing well, you can say "at least we played well", but that's about it.

 

I remember our last minute 3-2 win against Everton with Ashley Young getting the winner - we were atrocious that match, 3 attacks and managed to score 3 goals and under the cosh for 90 mins - if we'd lost 4-0 it probably would have been fair, but no one cares because we won, and in the last minute too! Anyone remember Andi Weimann scoring that bizarre winner against Man City? Another game we were terrible in, and again, no one cares because we won, and against a team like Man City too! 

 

Remember the 1st game V Forest at VP earlier in the season? We battered them, had about 70% possession, 20 shots to 3, but drew 2-2. Does anyone care how well we played? Of course not, because we only drew against bloody Forest. 

 

Screw "good football", give me a season of matches like the Everton or City ones than a season of matches like Forest. We all want to win, good football is a bonus. If Mourinho came here now, we won every remaining match 1-0, got promoted, then won the PL with a season of 1-0 wins no one would care that we only have 28% possession and 5 shots on goal per match. 

 

Good managers always do the same thing with clubs, build from the back. Sort the defence out first, organise the team, then start allowing the creative players to express themselves once its sorted. 

I get what youre saying, and understand fully even though I think differently.

A good manager does build from the back. Ours went out and loaned Sam Johnstone. Transfer window is now closed, so we're snookered. I think we only have one choice now.

play the game in the oppositions half and take a 4-3 win if we have to.

[Villan_of_oz]

9 hours ago, weedman said:

I agree that the good football thing is largely irrelevant if you're winning, it's only a thing if you're losing. If you lose playing well, you can say "at least we played well", but that's about it.

 

I remember our last minute 3-2 win against Everton with Ashley Young getting the winner - we were atrocious that match, 3 attacks and managed to score 3 goals and under the cosh for 90 mins - if we'd lost 4-0 it probably would have been fair, but no one cares because we won, and in the last minute too! Anyone remember Andi Weimann scoring that bizarre winner against Man City? Another game we were terrible in, and again, no one cares because we won, and against a team like Man City too! 

 

Remember the 1st game V Forest at VP earlier in the season? We battered them, had about 70% possession, 20 shots to 3, but drew 2-2. Does anyone care how well we played? Of course not, because we only drew against bloody Forest. 

 

Screw "good football", give me a season of matches like the Everton or City ones than a season of matches like Forest. We all want to win, good football is a bonus. If Mourinho came here now, we won every remaining match 1-0, got promoted, then won the PL with a season of 1-0 wins no one would care that we only have 28% possession and 5 shots on goal per match. 

 

Good managers always do the same thing with clubs, build from the back. Sort the defence out first, organise the team, then start allowing the creative players to express themselves once its sorted. 

Bloody brilliant!

[Villan_of_oz]

This 'good football' nonsense is pure rhetoric. Someone quoted the ManC game we won with a 1-0 Andi Weimann winner. One of the best games ever in my memory, although it really isn't we were a shite team, we played shite football, and we scored a pretty shite goal. Although Weimann standing in front of the villa faithful is still one of my fav screen savers. We won, that's all that matters. I listened to Pool vs Hull and Hull got battered in possession shots etc but Hull won at Anfield. No one supporting Hull gives a toss about good football I guarantee you. 

 

The rhetoric is old, we ain't Barca and I don't care for tika-taka. 

 

All I want is an absolute bucket load of points every season until I die, and well beyond for all you younger fans. 

Edit: just found the photo..... Not one of us in that crowd gave a toss about possession, passing stats or shots on target!

Nb I wasn't in the crowd

The photo and the result don't match up but I'm leaving the photo up. 

 

Edited February 10, 2017 by Villan_of_oz

[hippo]

I want to him to stay and succeed - I believe he is our best chance of promotion next season - however its not a done deal that he will be in my book - for the following reasons:-

 

1.As a manager Brucies teams have often struggled to score goals 

2.The current choice of goalkeeper doesn't inspire me

One of those factors on its own is damaging, throw in both and we could have real problems for the rest of the season. Scuttle home 3 or points from safety he's gone in my opinion - he's on a 1 year rolling contract for reason. 

[hippo]

56 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said:

This 'good football' nonsense is pure rhetoric. Someone quoted the ManC game we won with a 1-0 Andi Weimann winner. One of the best games ever in my memory, although it really isn't we were a shite team, we played shite football, and we scored a pretty shite goal. Although Weimann standing in front of the villa faithful is still one of my fav screen savers. We won, that's all that matters. I listened to Pool vs Hull and Hull got battered in possession shots etc but Hull won at Anfield. No one supporting Hull gives a toss about good football I guarantee you. 

 

The rhetoric is old, we ain't Barca and I don't care for tika-taka. 

 

All I want is an absolute bucket load of points every season until I die, and well beyond for all you younger fans. 

Couldn't agree more.

tika-taka works for Barca as they have the players who out of nothing create a moment of brilliance - the actually passing of the ball sideways for hours on end is irrelevant. They could just boot the ball to the messi and the effect would be similar.

I want to see a winger beat a fullback at pace - sling a cross in, to a 6ft 6 , shaven headed centre forward - who heads it in....  

 

[Woodytom]

2 hours ago, Villan_of_oz said:

This 'good football' nonsense is pure rhetoric. Someone quoted the ManC game we won with a 1-0 Andi Weimann winner. One of the best games ever in my memory, although it really isn't we were a shite team, we played shite football, and we scored a pretty shite goal. Although Weimann standing in front of the villa faithful is still one of my fav screen savers.

Wasn't that game 3-2 to us?

[Grumpy_Lion]

17 minutes ago, Woodytom said:

Wasn't that game 3-2 to us?

yes it was, the post says it was a game when we won 1-0 which is incorrect. We may have beaten Man City 1-0 with Weimann scoring but the picture isn't from that game.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Grumpy_Lion

[VillaCas]

On 07/02/2017 at 16:59, Daweii said:

No. 

I am just saying that unless Bruce has us in the relegation zone with no clear clue how to get us out then stick with him.

RDM and Sherwood deserved what they got. I mean RDM was on route to sending us to League One.. RDM accrued 9 points in 11 games.

Bruce came in and accrued 24 points in 13 games. That is Championship winning form. Yes we have under performed for the 5 league games since that run, but Bruce doesn't deserve to go.

If we keep losing then maybe, but not yet

 

I'm not saying that Bruce does deserve to go - I was responding to your (not so) implied criticsm (of the club?, supporters?) that " A manager at this club needs longer than 6-12 months, I feel lack of managerial faith has been one of our biggest problems"

Lack of "faith" is an easy criticsm to throw around but managers only get longer than 6-12 months if the prove they deserve it. Bruce was well in the plus column at the start of his reign -  not Championship winning form, as you claim, but certainly a big improvement on RDM (Bruce's record in his first 16 games (without his "own" players) was the 9th best during that period) however, we are now rock-bottom of the current form table and from our last 10 games have returned relegation form.

Bruce now has his own players and whilst most would accept that some bedding in is required people are also disappointed that we have been so poor - with his own, quality, players we are P2 L2 F1 A5 Pt0 with a tough run of games to come.

So in response to your original comment "A manager at this club needs longer than 6-12 months, I feel lack of managerial faith has been one of our biggest problems" which recent manager do you feel we should have had "more faith" in and would have turned things around if only we had got off their case?

Edited February 10, 2017 by VillaCas

[Villan_of_oz]

38 minutes ago, Woodytom said:

Wasn't that game 3-2 to us?

Haha trust you to bust me Woodytom. You are correct of course but my sentiment was the same. We were from a great team back then. 

 

Edited February 10, 2017 by Villan_of_oz

[Villan_of_oz]

20 minutes ago, Grumpy_Lion said:

yes it was, the post says it was a game when we won 1-0 which is incorrect. We may have beaten Man City 1-0 with Weimann scoring but the picture isn't from that game.

Forgive me for getting confused....

Edited February 10, 2017 by Villan_of_oz

[TRO]

12 hours ago, weedman said:

I agree that the good football thing is largely irrelevant if you're winning, it's only a thing if you're losing. If you lose playing well, you can say "at least we played well", but that's about it.

 

I remember our last minute 3-2 win against Everton with Ashley Young getting the winner - we were atrocious that match, 3 attacks and managed to score 3 goals and under the cosh for 90 mins - if we'd lost 4-0 it probably would have been fair, but no one cares because we won, and in the last minute too! Anyone remember Andi Weimann scoring that bizarre winner against Man City? Another game we were terrible in, and again, no one cares because we won, and against a team like Man City too! 

 

Remember the 1st game V Forest at VP earlier in the season? We battered them, had about 70% possession, 20 shots to 3, but drew 2-2. Does anyone care how well we played? Of course not, because we only drew against bloody Forest. 

 

Screw "good football", give me a season of matches like the Everton or City ones than a season of matches like Forest. We all want to win, good football is a bonus. If Mourinho came here now, we won every remaining match 1-0, got promoted, then won the PL with a season of 1-0 wins no one would care that we only have 28% possession and 5 shots on goal per match. 

 

Good managers always do the same thing with clubs, build from the back. Sort the defence out first, organise the team, then start allowing the creative players to express themselves once its sorted. 

Sadly I don't think our defence has been that good.....perhaps the 2 new full backs will help.

[TRO]

It might be a bit fundamental what I am about to say......but until we start winning our duels with our opposite numbers more consistently, I don't see much changing.

Edited February 10, 2017 by TRO

[Grumpy_Lion]

47 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said:

Forgive me for getting confused....

nothing to forgive :-). I was just at that game and remember it well :-)

[Villan_of_oz]

Just now, Grumpy_Lion said:

nothing to forgive :-). I was just at that game and remember it well :-)

I remember the goal perfectly clearly the trauma of the last few years has me confused about the match.