Steve Bruce

[Czechlad]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

I didn't want Bruce initially, like everyone else I warmed to him after the turn in results early on, I'm now back to thinking he wasn't the right man for us in the first place.

Such is the nature of football, a results based game.

If we win the next 5 I'll be back on board with him, as I would imagine will most other people.

 

I don't think we need to go round the houses on this one, if we're winning he's great, if we're losing he's shite.

I was indifferent to us signing Bruce. I was more concerned that his tactics are more outdated, but I am willing to give him a chance. We have made a lot of excuses for Bruce. Not his players, now the players need to gel, etc. Eventually he needs to start consistently putting up results. If at the end of February we still are in a similar predicament despite playing weaker opposition, then I think he won't make it here. 

[tinker]

What concerns me more than the results is the performances, we were terrible in the Wigan and Burton games but got results. He needs more time with his own players and to change him now would be ridiculous ........ if i was a gambling man i would bet against him being the right one. 

[Eastie]

10 minutes ago, tinker said:

What concerns me more than the results is the performances, we were terrible in the Wigan and Burton games but got results. He needs more time with his own players and to change him now would be ridiculous ........ if i was a gambling man i would bet against him being the right one. 

I'd back him to get us promoted next season but to be sacked within 4 months in the premiership - i think his job is to get us up and can't see him being the man to achieve success in the premiership where we would need an upgrade to fulfill xias ambitions .

[HanoiVillan]

3 hours ago, Regista said:

Pointless response, do you have nothing relevant to respond with? In the way you and other people may have construed the sentence yes, it may seem contradictory. 

What I meant was I don't think it was the initial plan and it may be a case of trial and error with regards to formations. He's going to move on to 3-5-2, if that's doesn't work for a few games maybe 4-4-2. Therefore, no long term plan of a system in place or an identity, he basically has no clue how he wants this new team to play. 

I don't see the need for the aggression, to be honest. 

The relevance is that I couldn't understand the point you were making. Thanks for clearing it up (albeit in a dickish way). I suggest we leave it there. 

[Demitri_C]

1 hour ago, chrisvilla4 said:

No mate. I'm saying the opposite. Sorry it's probably the way it's written. 

No worries bro 

[Eastie]

8 hours ago, Regista said:

Judging by his actions so far I personally don't think he has any idea of what type of system he is going to use. It seems as though he changed plans after Brentford and wanted to trial 3-5-2 and may now move forward with this. 

Whatever happens over the next few games I hope to God we see an improvement and that Bruce starts to turn things round, we should at least give him time. (If you ask me about this within a few hours of a dire performance I may think differently). 

I just have this feeling that Bruce may not be the right type of manager to implement a pro active playing style, but like I said I hope I'm proved wrong. 

One final thing is I hope he never attempts to play 4-4-2 as it will never work with the players we have. Hourihane can play in that, but Jedi or Lansbury alongside him will 100% not be effective. Lansbury is so poor without the ball and isn't mobile enough. On the ball however he is brilliant, and we have 3 players who will fit into a perfect 3 CM system with Jedi holding. 

Bruce has said he prefers the 352 system but hasn't deployed that here as it depends on the right personnel - he spoke on Saturday of now having the right 2 strikers to make that system work and as you say with Jedi back the centre midfield area should look much better in this system - I think Bree and Taylor are also an upgrade on what we had and will be decent wing backs - sort the keeper out in the summer and get another central defender and we have the makings of a really good side once players get used to the system.

[pacbuddies]

If he stays and gets us promoted next season we need to get rid of him as soon as the season ends and instal someone that is capable of more than a relegation battle in the Premier League. We are so far behind the top half a dozen or so clubs in the top flight it is shameful and we need the best manager we can get and a hell of a transfer kitty.

[Regista]

2 hours ago, Eastie said:

Bruce has said he prefers the 352 system but hasn't deployed that here as it depends on the right personnel - he spoke on Saturday of now having the right 2 strikers to make that system work and as you say with Jedi back the centre midfield area should look much better in this system - I think Bree and Taylor are also an upgrade on what we had and will be decent wing backs - sort the keeper out in the summer and get another central defender and we have the makings of a really good side once players get used to the system.

Will be slightly concerned if this was his intial plan and he's bought no CB's in Jan though. Only have 3 first team CB's in the squad. Any injuries will mean square pegs in round holes. I know Bree can apparently play there but I'd think it best with young players sticking to one position. 

SORRY, we have Micah how could I forget!

[srsmithusa]

I did not like his hiring.  Too traditional in his approach.  Wanted some younger guy with fresh ideas to take us back to the heights of our ambitions.  But his early results were good.  So I was willing to let him get in his own team.  He did that in January and we clearly improved our strength, except GK, and no points. (I know that some would disagree that our performances have shown strides of improvement, but they are clear to me).  

So, I'm still happy to leave him until the end of the season or we are in the relegation zone, whichever comes first. 

[Stevo985]

8 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

So I guess the "certificates" he got for 4 promotions elsewhere, means 21 other clubs will just step aside and let his "reputation" qualify him to do it again.

I've stated my opinion and you are just ridiculing it because you think otherwise.

I'm not ridiculing it. I'm disagreeing with it.

Bruce's 4 previous promotions absolutely do not guarantee that he'll do it again with us.

But to dismiss them as "irrelevant" is crazy. Of course they're relevant.

[Grasshopper]

11 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I'm not ridiculing it. I'm disagreeing with it.

Bruce's 4 previous promotions absolutely do not guarantee that he'll do it again with us.

But to dismiss them as "irrelevant" is crazy. Of course they're relevant.

I always give reasoning to what I have as an opinion.

for example

I've explained why its irrelevant.

You have just dismissed my saying its irrelevant by writing

But to dismiss them as "irrelevant" is crazy. Of course they're relevant

you just state I'm crazy without even explaining why they are relevant.

because IF they were in fact relevant we'd be on our way to promotion this season But we are NOT.

[TRO]

17 hours ago, Regista said:

 

Hmmm the problem here is again reverting back to the type of manager Bruce is. He isn't a tactician and I doubt he has us working on the training ground around passing sequences utilising midfield etc. Tactical managers are all about pictures/diagrams and going over and over passing sequences until players can't get it wrong. For example when a full back is under pressure a sequence of 'in out in out' passes to beat the press. 

 

Bruce isn't the type of manager to do this and is all about team shape/fight/being hard to beat (which we aren't). He will probably be hoping because we have brought in some really good technical players for this level and will all click but unless he starts to implement a style and getting the best out of these players this team will not reach its potential. 

This reverts back to my main gripe over Grealish. He shines in the England U21's, but when playing for villa he just gets bypassed and ends up having to chase the ball for 90% of the game, so he looks bang average. 

 

Im willing to give Bruce until the end of the season, plus I don't think there's anyone that would come here at the minute who is the right type of manager to get the best out of these players. Hope he proves me wrong! 

firstly, unless you are Bodymoor Heath everyday with a clipboard taking notes, you are just assuming most of that.

All managers develop their own way of getting results.

Steve Round was instrumental in getting Steve Bruce and himself a successful academic in terms of modern day football, so I would find it inconceivable that he harbours dinosaurs.

But ,like you and every other writer on here, we are just speculating.

We can save ourselves some tired fingers and say.....

We all want a win.....badly.

Edited February 8, 2017 by TRO

[TRO]

6 hours ago, tinker said:

What concerns me more than the results is the performances, we were terrible in the Wigan and Burton games but got results. He needs more time with his own players and to change him now would be ridiculous ........ if i was a gambling man i would bet against him being the right one. 

I would wager, if he had been happy with those performances, he would not have gone out and bought half a team.

I would suggest he is on the same page as you.

wins change everything.

[Demitri_C]

4 hours ago, pacbuddies said:

If he stays and gets us promoted next season we need to get rid of him as soon as the season ends and instal someone that is capable of more than a relegation battle in the Premier League. We are so far behind the top half a dozen or so clubs in the top flight it is shameful and we need the best manager we can get and a hell of a transfer kitty.

So he gets us promoted then we reward him by sacking him? You see how ridiculous that sounds?

I'd rather reward hard work then punish him. We are not small heath.

[Kiwivillan]

Can't remember where I read it. Probably not here maybe Facebook comment but was said Bruce leaves training to the coach and just picks the team and shouts instructions on match day. Any itk confirmation on this? Performances and article I posted earlier in this thread point to "motivator" and not tactician

Edited February 8, 2017 by Kiwivillan

[ozvillafan]

3 hours ago, Kiwivillan said:

Can't remember where I read it. Probably not here maybe Facebook comment but was said Bruce leaves training to the coach and just picks the team and shouts instructions on match day. Any itk confirmation on this? Performances and article I posted earlier in this thread point to "motivator" and not tactician

MON used to do the same, from memory. He picked teams (mind you, it was always the same 11) and was rarely seen at the training ground.

[ozvillafan]

I should add: I don't have a problem with that. After all, that's what a manager does: He manages.

The best managers I have worked for are the ones that give you regular direction/leadership but then let you get on with doing it. The worst are the types who have to have their fingers in everything and micro-manage.

In this case, Bruce should be able to instruct his coaching staff on what he wants on a regular basis and then let them get on with it.

[Grasshopper]

34 minutes ago, ozvillafan said:

I should add: I don't have a problem with that. After all, that's what a manager does: He manages.

The best managers I have worked for are the ones that give you regular direction/leadership but then let you get on with doing it. The worst are the types who have to have their fingers in everything and micro-manage.

In this case, Bruce should be able to instruct his coaching staff on what he wants on a regular basis and then let them get on with it.

Lazy f*****rs, they just wanna spend more time on the golf course

[Grasshopper]

11 hours ago, Eastie said:

Bruce has said he prefers the 352 system but hasn't deployed that here as it depends on the right personnel - he spoke on Saturday of now having the right 2 strikers to make that system work and as you say with Jedi back the centre midfield area should look much better in this system

This is not aimed at you

Well Bruce is talking Bollox because if his "prefered system" is 3-5-2

he could have gone

                   Gollini

       Chester Elphick Baker

Bacuna                          Amavi

                     Jedi

     Westwood      Gardner

           McC & Kodjia

from October onwards

He had options in Hutton @ WB for Bacuna

Bacuna or Adomah for Westwood

Tish, Ayew or Grealish for Gardner

Ayew, McC or Grealish could have played nr10 alongside or behind Kodjia

Gestede up front for Kodjia, who could move to the Advanced nr10, off from the left or up alongside Gestede

Gaby was brought back in so there was another option (not a good one I may add) up top alone or in a 2

But I suppose its easy to hide behind excuses when you've lost the plot. "oh I'll wait till JanWin and loan a shit GK to well and truly F**** it up"

[Regista]

7 hours ago, TRO said:

firstly, unless you are Bodymoor Heath everyday with a clipboard taking notes, you are just assuming most of that.

All managers develop their own way of getting results.

Steve Round was instrumental in getting Steve Bruce and himself a successful academic in terms of modern day football, so I would find it inconceivable that he harbours dinosaurs.

But ,like you and every other writer on here, we are just speculating.

We can save ourselves some tired fingers and say.....

We all want a win.....badly.

Correct, as mentioned further down the thread it is an assumption, but one I am fairly certain about. 

That is based on how all Steve Bruce teams have played over the years. The point I was trying to make is that the evidence suggests that we do not have a system and a way of playing when we take to the field. Modern day managers and tactically astute coaches will drill in methods/sequences that would be obvious to see are being attempted from watching a game, and that's from day one! They might not start to be effective with these straight away but a few months in you would see evidence of a system starting to be understood.

My concern at the minute is there is a formation on match day, a team picked, and a consensus to 'go out there and give 100%' with no real game plan. 

When you say I am 'speculating', I would agree but also add I am speculating and judging on what evidence I have seen on the football pitch so far, and that is a team who appear to be playing with no ideas of how to attack as a team. A proportion of our goals have come from individual brilliance. 

I am convinced a lot if it falls down to not having a tactically astute management team in place, no matter how many people come back with that's just 'speculating/assuming'. One thing is certain though is that even with a man manager here like Bruce we should still be doing a lot better, but I feel the players brought in do not suit this. We will see an improvement but I feel we won't ever be playing positive football under him, and we now actually have the players to do that. 

Be interesting to see how this plays out 'til the end of the season. UTV