Arsenal

[VillaChris]

I see Walcott now as their version of Gabby.

Always relied on his pace, hit and miss finisher but seems to have been there forever and never really kicked on. Yes his stats are good this season but plenty of his goals are against weak team and he doesn't influence enough big games although you could say that about most of them.

The fact he's now captaining them now is very amusing.

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, VillaChris said:

I see Walcott now as their version of Gabby.

Always relied on his pace, hit and miss finisher but seems to have been there forever and never really kicked on. Yes his stats are good this season but plenty of his goals are against weak team and he doesn't influence enough big games although you could say that about most of them.

The fact he's now captaining them now is very amusing.

I don't really understand the dislike or rubbishing that Walcott gets.  There are a whole heap of myths about him.  Let's take the one in bold:

This season he's scored 19 goals, which is a pretty good return (never really kicked on?).  In that, he's scored 2 against Man City, 1 against Chelsea, 1 against Liverpool and 1 against Bayern.  That's over 25% of his goals coming against top opposition.

If you take it as just in the league, he's only scored 10 goals - so 40% of them against top opposition.  He's also scored a hat-trick against Southampton, who sit 9th.  Are these weak sides?

 

Now compare that goalscoring record against big sides to those of Ibrahimovic, Sanchez, Kane or Lukaku.

[TrentVilla]

You make some valid points bobzy (as I previously conceeded to you re Walcott) but I think you are on dangerous ground asking for a comparison to those players.

Granted you say against the big sides and I don't know the stats on that but...

In terms of league goals scored,

Lukaku 23

Kane 19

Sanchez 18

Zlatan 17

Alli 16

So with 10 league goals I think it's fair to say Walcott is amongst the more average goalscorers in the league particularly given that he plays for one of the stronger sides.

And yes I know he doesn't always play up front but there is a reason for that.

[BOF]

14 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

You make some valid points bobzy (as I previously conceeded to you re Walcott) but I think you are on dangerous ground asking for a comparison to those players.

Granted you say against the big sides and I don't know the stats on that but...

In terms of league goals scored, Lukaku 23 Kane 19 Sanchez 18 Zlatan 17 Alli 16

So with 10 league goals I think it's fair to say Walcott is amongst the more average goalscorers in the league particularly given that he plays for one of the stronger sides.

And yes I know he doesn't always play up front but there is a reason for that.

Don't DO that.  You know I can't resist that.

Links below are to soccerbase stat tables, not articles.
Lukaku - Of his 23 in the league this season, I count 3 against top sides.  2 v Citeh and 1 v Spurs.  If you fancy counting Leicester then add another 3.
Kane - He has 1.  Against Arsenal.  If you count Everton then add another 2.
Sanchez - 1 goal v Chelsea.  He has 1 v Everton as well.  In CL he scored in the 5-1 defeat to Bayern (to make it 1-1 at the time).
Zlatan - 2 goals.  1 v Citeh, 1 v Liverpool.  He also has 2 v Everton and 4 v Southampton.
Alli - 4 goals.  2 x Citeh, 2 x Chelsea.  Also has 3 x Southampton and 1 v Everton.

[TrentVilla]

48 minutes ago, BOF said:

Don't DO that.  You know I can't resist that.

I know

I thought about tagging you in the post but instead I just smiled to myself, sat back and waited.

[VillaChris]

7 hours ago, bobzy said:

I don't really understand the dislike or rubbishing that Walcott gets.  There are a whole heap of myths about him.  Let's take the one in bold:

This season he's scored 19 goals, which is a pretty good return (never really kicked on?).  In that, he's scored 2 against Man City, 1 against Chelsea, 1 against Liverpool and 1 against Bayern.  That's over 25% of his goals coming against top opposition.

If you take it as just in the league, he's only scored 10 goals - so 40% of them against top opposition.  He's also scored a hat-trick against Southampton, who sit 9th.  Are these weak sides?

 

Now compare that goalscoring record against big sides to those of Ibrahimovic, Sanchez, Kane or Lukaku.

When did he score a hattrick v Southampton given they won the first game 2-1 and yet to play the away game this season.

I take your point that he can nick goals at times but he just doesn't do enough over 90 minutes in major games for me, last season v Man. United away I watched the full 90 minutes and saw him touch the ball about 4 times.

It's the same with England, since that hat trick v Croatia how many times have you seen him play for England and think he was brilliant?

[bobzy]

3 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

When did he score a hattrick v Southampton given they won the first game 2-1 and yet to play the away game this season.

I take your point that he can nick goals at times but he just doesn't do enough over 90 minutes in major games for me, last season v Man. United away I watched the full 90 minutes and saw him touch the ball about 4 times.

It's the same with England, since that hat trick v Croatia how many times have you seen him play for England and think he was brilliant?

Gah, the hat-trick was a cup game. I mean, it still happened... but yeah.

His record overall is pretty damn good - especially for a striker that has regularly been played out wide. I can't remember exactly what it is, but I posted it a few pages back.

On England, I actually remember his hat-trick against Croatia. I'm struggling to remember anything else an English player has done since then. 

[bobzy]

4 hours ago, BOF said:

Don't DO that.  You know I can't resist that.

Links below are to soccerbase stat tables, not articles.
Lukaku - Of his 23 in the league this season, I count 3 against top sides.  2 v Citeh and 1 v Spurs.  If you fancy counting Leicester then add another 3.
Kane - He has 1.  Against Arsenal.  If you count Everton then add another 2.
Sanchez - 1 goal v Chelsea.  He has 1 v Everton as well.  In CL he scored in the 5-1 defeat to Bayern (to make it 1-1 at the time).
Zlatan - 2 goals.  1 v Citeh, 1 v Liverpool.  He also has 2 v Everton and 4 v Southampton.
Alli - 4 goals.  2 x Citeh, 2 x Chelsea.  Also has 3 x Southampton and 1 v Everton.

That's actually even worse than I thought it would be. 

But yeah, it's Walcott that gets the "can't do it in big games" criticism. The myths are just so well-founded that they won't be shifted. 

[VillaChris]

Have a look at the team Saints played that day, they had some 18 year old in goal. You should've refrained from posting that as an example when you saw Danny Welbeck had scored twice in that game so obviously not a top quality backline they were facing.

[bobzy]

Just now, VillaChris said:

Have a look at the team Saints played that day, they had some 18 year old in goal. You should've refrained from posting that as an example when you saw Danny Welbeck had scored twice in that game so obviously not a top quality backline they were facing.

I'm happy to discard the Southampton game and instead refer you to Walcott vs "big sides" in the league compared to the leagues topscorers. 

That's what started this discussion anyway

[Xela]

 

[TrentVilla]

2 minutes ago, bobzy said:

That's actually even worse than I thought it would be. 

But yeah, it's Walcott that gets the "can't do it in big games" criticism. The myths are just so well-founded that they won't be shifted. 

Well if they are well-founded they won't

However, you seem to be focussing on this 'goals in big games' thing but I'm not really sure that is the main criticism, the criticism is more than he doesn't score enough goals. The stats for league goals this season supports that view.

[bobzy]

Just now, TrentVilla said:

Well if they are well-founded they won't

However, you seem to be focussing on this 'goals in big games' thing but I'm not really sure that is the main criticism, the criticism is more than he doesn't score enough goals. The stats for league goals this season supports that view.

Ha! I meant deep-rooted . It's been a long day...

The goals in big games thing was brought up by VillaChris - that's why I referred to it. I've discussed his record elsewhere in this thread so don't need to go over it again! (I do wonder how the "second" top scorers in other big teams compare to Walcott though. Alli will be ahead of him... anyone else?)

[TrentVilla]

3 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Ha! I meant deep-rooted . It's been a long day...

The goals in big games thing was brought up by VillaChris - that's why I referred to it. I've discussed his record elsewhere in this thread so don't need to go over it again! (I do wonder how the "second" top scorers in other big teams compare to Walcott though. Alli will be ahead of him... anyone else?)

Kane, Firminio, Hazard, Son as Spurs 3rd highest scorer! 

[bobzy]

3 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Kane, Firminio, Hazard, Son as Spurs 3rd highest scorer! 

Firmino is level... having played 800 more minutes football!  But yes, fair

[BOF]

It's important to point out that's this season only. Kane actually has a 1 in 2 scoring record against the top sides. The only one he has struggled against to date has been United. He has 5 in 4 against Arsenal for example. 

[Grasshopper]

I'm no Arsenal fan but the liberty that SKY are taking letting Charlie ********* Knucklehead rant off calling for Wenger to "out" whats going on is simply wrong.

Who the ***** do they think they are?

[BOF]

12 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

I'm no Arsenal fan but the liberty that SKY are taking letting Charlie ********* Knucklehead rant off calling for Wenger to "out" whats going on is simply wrong.

Who the ***** do they think they are?

He's a pundit.  They (pundits) do that all the time, not to mention Sky are in the business of making the news if they can (and then reflecting it via SkyBet).  He probably has a newspaper column he put it in as well.  Nothing to see here really.

[Grasshopper]

2 hours ago, BOF said:

He's a pundit.  They (pundits) do that all the time, not to mention Sky are in the business of making the news if they can (and then reflecting it via SkyBet).  He probably has a newspaper column he put it in as well.

You are indeed 100% correct

But what a sad state of affairs eh!

[BOF]

4 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

You are indeed 100% correct

But what a sad state of affairs eh!

Ah I dunno.  I think in his defence he is only saying what every Arsenal fan wants.  Clarification. He is speaking as a fan too.  OK he's using his position as a prominent pundit to be heard, but he is representing the fanbase en masse.  I must say I prefer outspoken pundits who speak their mind and who can ruffle feathers.  Rather than the boring Alan Shearers or Jamie Redknapps of the world who wouldn't say boo to a goose for fear of upsetting their cushy little world.