ThunderPower_14 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 16 minutes ago, paul514 said: This completely just ignores they could pay for it themselves. Yes, with 100 million pounds, that doesn't vanish into thin air if we don't spend it on a new North Stand, and could potentially be invested elsewhere for greater returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 25 VT Supporter Share Posted January 25 11 minutes ago, Caravella82 said: I remain horrified because even though it should have been protected, no chairman with any affection for Villa's history or stadium architecture in general should have allowed that change to happen, let alone for something akin to it's replacement. For me, the red brickwork, stained glass and mosaics made Villa Park unique. Ellis turned it into just another stadium and in the case of the new Trinity, worse than many others. I visited Ibrox in September last year and couldn't help but be envious at the preservation of the Bill Struth Stand. Leg room is almost non existent but I can forgive that when I feel that I'm sat in such a historic stand. It was my point. 65 years later no one cared how much it cost. They just marvelled at it and mourned it's passing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 16 minutes ago, ThunderPower_14 said: Yes, with 100 million pounds, that doesn't vanish into thin air if we don't spend it on a new North Stand, and could potentially be invested elsewhere for greater returns. I think we are done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 25 VT Supporter Share Posted January 25 6 minutes ago, paul514 said: I think we are done I gave up a while ago. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
romavillan Posted January 25 VT Supporter Share Posted January 25 Be a great thing to have a 50,000 seater stadium though, right? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, paul514 said: Done in a much higher interest era, how’s it going for Arsenal now? But arsenal were already arsenal. A strong squad and we'll established in the champions league. The compromised on challenging for titles. I'm just wondering if it's possible for us to compromise our push for European spaces in order to rebuild the stadium. I think the club has prioritised the latter (all speculation of course) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 6 minutes ago, romavillan said: Be a great thing to have a 50,000 seater stadium though, right? Apparently there's a lot of interest for that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 3 minutes ago, cheltenham_villa said: But arsenal were already arsenal. A strong squad and we'll established in the champions league. The compromised on challenging for titles. I'm just wondering if it's possible for us to compromise our push for European spaces in order to rebuild the stadium. I think the club has prioritised the latter (all speculation of course) Correct Arsenal were Arsenal. They didn’t have rich owners, and had to borrow the money for an entirely new stadium. Financially, how has that gone for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 19 minutes ago, paul514 said: Correct Arsenal were Arsenal. They didn’t have rich owners, and had to borrow the money for an entirely new stadium. Financially, how has that gone for them? They got bought out by rich owners about a year after the Emirates opened, so pretty well I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted January 25 VT Supporter Share Posted January 25 15 minutes ago, ThunderPower_14 said: They got bought out by rich owners about a year after the Emirates opened, so pretty well I guess. I don't understand why the old owners would sell up straight away after spending all than money on the stadium. They must have lost a ton on the construction costs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 All this jibber jabber about Arsenal’s new stadium in the Wenger era was pre these days of ffp and the club were working around a way to actually pay for the new stadium, now with the ffp nonsense actual costs of building infrastructure aren’t a problem because NSWE are slowed to speed what they want except of course they’re shrewd businessmen and so will always look at value in that sense too but the big variables that we need to fix is the overall income and whilst that is affected by matchdsy revenue it is affected more by the fans and sponsors thst don’t regularly attend games. More seats is always ultimately more money but there are other ways to increase income and that’s where we need to be clever. We may relocate but we’re not ever going to relocate to inside the M25 so it’s important that we think outside the box and I think that’s where Heck comes in at the moment. Do while I think it’s important to thst the club don’t lose its identity or forget it’s history, if we want to get around the ffp bullet we need to be smart on and off the pitch. The on the pitch part is well looked after now with the leadership of Unai and Monchi, now it’s time for Chris Heck to show what he can do. I thought that one of Cp’s strengths was supposed to be his knowledge of FFP, but I’m not convinced that he managed to do that, especially since we were losing lots of money during his tenure and in ffp terms or any metric you want to use, that’s rarely a good thing I’m afraid. I know he’s held in great esteem on VT but those are the undeniable facts. His high profile Stevie G project was s stick used to beat him with but I don’t think that was the reason he was eased to one side by NSWE, he undeniably did some great work when he arrived with the new owners, who had little knowlege or experience of running a major PL football club. The big leap forward in the very important matter of being good at playing football arrived with Unai and the rapidy following Monchi, and Heck has correctly identified those two as making his job easier, because no matter how you want to frame it success on the pitch is the big thing all football clubs and particularly the fans of the club at all levels want, whether they sitting in the cheapest, seat, the director’s box or watching on the tele thousands of miles away in their new, Adidas, hopefully, Villa shirt. The game on and off the pitch has evolved again and will continue to evolve, often for reasons we don’t like or understand but we can’t do much about either. Ultimately with the two men that are our current owners, we’ve been in worse places and should be facing the future with an optimistic glowing feeling. UTV!!!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sidcow Posted January 25 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted January 25 (edited) 1 hour ago, DaveAV1 said: All this jibber jabber about Arsenal’s new stadium in the Wenger era was pre these days of ffp and the club were working around a way to actually pay for the new stadium, now with the ffp nonsense actual costs of building infrastructure aren’t a problem because NSWE are slowed to speed what they want except of course they’re shrewd businessmen and so will always look at value in that sense too but the big variables that we need to fix is the overall income and whilst that is affected by matchdsy revenue it is affected more by the fans and sponsors thst don’t regularly attend games. More seats is always ultimately more money but there are other ways to increase income and that’s where we need to be clever. We may relocate but we’re not ever going to relocate to inside the M25 so it’s important that we think outside the box and I think that’s where Heck comes in at the moment. Do while I think it’s important to thst the club don’t lose its identity or forget it’s history, if we want to get around the ffp bullet we need to be smart on and off the pitch. The on the pitch part is well looked after now with the leadership of Unai and Monchi, now it’s time for Chris Heck to show what he can do. I thought that one of Cp’s strengths was supposed to be his knowledge of FFP, but I’m not convinced that he managed to do that, especially since we were losing lots of money during his tenure and in ffp terms or any metric you want to use, that’s rarely a good thing I’m afraid. I know he’s held in great esteem on VT but those are the undeniable facts. His high profile Stevie G project was s stick used to beat him with but I don’t think that was the reason he was eased to one side by NSWE, he undeniably did some great work when he arrived with the new owners, who had little knowlege or experience of running a major PL football club. The big leap forward in the very important matter of being good at playing football arrived with Unai and the rapidy following Monchi, and Heck has correctly identified those two as making his job easier, because no matter how you want to frame it success on the pitch is the big thing all football clubs and particularly the fans of the club at all levels want, whether they sitting in the cheapest, seat, the director’s box or watching on the tele thousands of miles away in their new, Adidas, hopefully, Villa shirt. The game on and off the pitch has evolved again and will continue to evolve, often for reasons we don’t like or understand but we can’t do much about either. Ultimately with the two men that are our current owners, we’ve been in worse places and should be facing the future with an optimistic glowing feeling. UTV!!!!! Edited January 25 by sidcow 3 2 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 5 hours ago, sidcow said: 5 hours ago, cheltenham_villa said: the opportunity cost is also a good point. No club have built a stadium or stand and continued to invest in the team. Its one or the other. I mean, that is patently not true I think the opportunity cost(s) comes to: does V Sports have other projects on the books with a better rate of return? 5 hours ago, ThunderPower_14 said: Then surely we apply Occam's Razor and deduce that the numbers don't add up as simply as you're saying. My question would be where the data comes from, what the assumptions are, and the math behind it. I have to admit the replies so far have been far from convincing. Edited January 25 by fruitvilla 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 8 hours ago, villa89 said: 630K x 19 = £12m. £150m / £12m = 12.5 years to pay off the new stand. Even allowing for other revenue means you are still looking at minimum 8 - 10 years for the new stand to pay for itself and actually start making money for the club. Like I said, the numbers don't add up. The extra profit (not revenue) goes to paying off the interest first. Not the principal. If we could pay off the project in 8 to 10 years that would be a great achievement. So I agree with you it does not look like a great investment at this time ... unless a really cheap loan (2 %) could be secured over say twenty years. But no lender in their right minds would do this. The question for me is how many of us would buy bonds say at 2.5% over twenty years to finance the new stand? It's in a good cause and for the benefit of Aston Villa. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fruitvilla Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 9 hours ago, villa89 said: wants a £30 ticket, a pie and a pint. Heaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted January 25 Administrator Share Posted January 25 My biggest concern with delaying the rebuild would be a league--wide introduction of a price cap for the "average fan" ticket. I've not heard this proposed, but it's already a thing for away fans where first they introduced parity with home fans and then a fixed price. If we are in a smaller stadium with poor facilities for upselling food, drink and merchandise then this could really hurt. And I can't see the big clubs objecting to another way to keep smaller clubs down. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 3 hours ago, limpid said: My biggest concern with delaying the rebuild would be a league--wide introduction of a price cap for the "average fan" ticket. I've not heard this proposed, but it's already a thing for away fans where first they introduced parity with home fans and then a fixed price. If we are in a smaller stadium with poor facilities for upselling food, drink and merchandise then this could really hurt. And I can't see the big clubs objecting to another way to keep smaller clubs down. As you wrote, I can't see an average fan price cap being introduced for home fans. However, if it were, wouldn't that encourage expansion as the only way to increase gate revenue? Kind of the opposite of what Heck's current plan is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted January 25 Administrator Share Posted January 25 10 minutes ago, brommy said: As you wrote, I can't see an average fan price cap being introduced for home fans. However, if it were, wouldn't that encourage expansion as the only way to increase gate revenue? Kind of the opposite of what Heck's current plan is. But if we start the day it's agreed, and assuming that we have a contractor ready to go, it'll take two years to build, with less revenue. It'll be such an easy sell for the big clubs though, that they are doing it for the fans. How could any of the CEOs be seen to be against that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 12 hours ago, limpid said: But if we start the day it's agreed, and assuming that we have a contractor ready to go, it'll take two years to build, with less revenue. It'll be such an easy sell for the big clubs though, that they are doing it for the fans. How could any of the CEOs be seen to be against that? Fair enough but I still think we're chatting about something that's not going to be built at a time when something is very unlikely to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted January 26 Administrator Share Posted January 26 5 minutes ago, brommy said: Fair enough but I still think we're chatting about something that's not going to be built at a time when something is very unlikely to happen. I hope so. If I've thought of it, I guarantee others have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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