chrisp65 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 it's all a bit early days and I'm looking at sources I haven't got a clue if they're legit tbh, and working off translated tweets, but this map has popped up. it shows which party won each area or municipality within the Catalan region. Barcelona city region, 76,000 votes counted, pro indie party won by less than 200 votes. The yellow and pink parties are the pro independence ones. turn out up 20% on the 2017 election It looks like pro indie parties = 22MP's 'Neutral' parties that support an indie referendum = 8MP's 'Spanish' parties = 19MP's But all a bit early, I think they only get a total of 48 MP's and that adds up to 49! Interestingly, the Basques are also returning more indie MP's up from 7 to 11 (as a proportion of the 19 in total the Basques return to the Spanish parliament). Spain having a bit of a wobble. Which interestingly, possibly makes it less likely an independent Scotland would gain easy entry to the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 1 minute ago, chrisp65 said: it's all a bit early days Is your post a response to my questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Just now, snowychap said: Is your post a response to my questions? no, I'm just kind of riffing on the election stuff as I get it would you like me to get you a link to google? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: no, I'm just kind of riffing on the election stuff as I get it would you like me to get you a link to google? No. Your confirmation that nothing you've posted is in response to any questions asked is enough. Thanks. Carry on riffing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 On 27/04/2019 at 13:36, blandy said: He hasn't delivered anything for his constituents. Give them a chance. Judging by that photo, Ms Widdecombe is about to deliver something. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 (edited) Click play, it's worth it. Edited April 29, 2019 by HanoiVillan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 Would you say that anyone who would like for the UK to leave the EU (regardless of their reasoning) is an easy target to be ridiculed and called a biggot/racist/backwards thinking? Can you that many "stay" voters have claimed somewhat of a skewed moral superiority stance that isn't healthy for a public debate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 24 minutes ago, Mic09 said: Would you say that anyone who would like for the UK to leave the EU (regardless of their reasoning) is an easy target to be ridiculed and called a biggot/racist/backwards thinking? Can you that many "stay" voters have claimed somewhat of a skewed moral superiority stance that isn't healthy for a public debate? nope not everyone that wants to leave is a backward racist but every backward racist wants to leave it's an argument that's been done a few times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 7 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: nope not everyone that wants to leave is a backward racist but every backward racist wants to leave it's an argument that's been done a few times That's what I mean - I just feel like anyone arguing to leave is often framed to be a backwards racist regardless of their reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 Just now, Mic09 said: That's what I mean - I just feel like anyone arguing to leave is often framed to be a backwards racist regardless of their reasoning. No, not regardless of their reasoning. There are many reasons for wanting to leave, everyone except the Supreme Leader May knew this. She thought all we wanted was less brown people and the way to achieve this was to erect new borders against Poland and get our cheap labour from the Commonwealth instead (as long as they can earn £30K). So she decided we could still be run by the EU by being in their customs union, but with people borders. Turns out, that's not what everyone wanted. Some wanted cheap chicken, some wanted a better Britain to visit in the summer when Majorca gets too hot. Some just wanted to roll the dice. Some were annoyed at all that UK money going to the EU and then some of it coming back as art installations for areas with shit jobs. Lots of different reasons, not all racist by a long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: No, not regardless of their reasoning. There are many reasons for wanting to leave, everyone except the Supreme Leader May knew this. She thought all we wanted was less brown people and the way to achieve this was to erect new borders against Poland and get our cheap labour from the Commonwealth instead (as long as they can earn £30K). So she decided we could still be run by the EU by being in their customs union, but with people borders. Turns out, that's not what everyone wanted. Some wanted cheap chicken, some wanted a better Britain to visit in the summer when Majorca gets too hot. Some just wanted to roll the dice. Some were annoyed at all that UK money going to the EU and then some of it coming back as art installations for areas with shit jobs. Lots of different reasons, not all racist by a long way. I get that - and agree. But where you have the racist bigots on one side, on the other side, you have the "let's call everyone that wants to leave racist" brigade that often claim the moral superiority and do not want to hear arguments such as independence, self governance or any of the above that you have mentioned. Its just a shame that it's the racists and their counterparts from the other side that seem to be the loudest. Edited April 29, 2019 by Mic09 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 I think there's a problem with trying to describe the ideas beyond simple bigotry. Lots of those that would like to claim we want to govern ourselves, are the same people that don't believe Scotland should govern itself. So there's a bit of a contradiction straight away. But to be honest, on a more 'real' level than that, we would still need to export to other trade blocs that have their rules. So we can't suddenly decide how we want to make widgets to suit ourselves. We can export widgets that comply with EU regulation and choose to be a rule maker or a rule taker. Or we can make widgets for another market, and be a rule taker on how they are made. There are no markets for widgets where we will decide the quality of the widget. To govern ourselves and decide we don't want EU food standards and farm welfare rules, means we'll have to fit in with someone else's rules on chicken welfare and cucumber curves. Brazil will not be buying our expensive EU quality lamb for full price in exchange for their EU quality but dirt cheap chicken. The most compelling argument for me, is that for many towns the current system isn't working for them for a myriad of reasons. So press the change button and see what happens. Life's been good for the educated urbane lip service socialist. Life's been good for the money men. Lots of people in Boston and Wrexham and Stoke thought this might give them a shake and remind the world they exist. They also saw (see) an opportunity to give our current generation of piss poor political class a bloody nose. Which doesn't harm every now and again. In reality, whatever you vote, at the end of it you'll need to work all your life and Philip May will be a bit richer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 29, 2019 Moderator Share Posted April 29, 2019 45 minutes ago, Mic09 said: and do not want to hear arguments such as independence, self governance Because the argument stands up to no scrutiny, the very process this country is currently embroiled in proves that to any rational person. We already have sovereignty otherwise this absolute arsequake wouldn't happening in the first place Tbh what gets on my tits more is people who have ignored all the arguments and still prattle on about bullshit arguments like sovereignty. The EU makes TRADE rules, it does not tell us what is a crime in this country I predict the next argument will be about the European Court of Human Rights because it's been ignored that it has naff all to do with the EU, yet it's the devil's work and all the EU's fault 48 minutes ago, Mic09 said: "let's call everyone that wants to leave racist" brigade This is a figment of your imagination. Will Self nailed this in the studio with Mark "isnt that a French name" Francois. Not everyone who voted to leave is a racist bigot but all the racist bigots voted to leave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted April 29, 2019 Share Posted April 29, 2019 1 hour ago, bickster said: Not everyone who voted to leave is a racist bigot but all the racist bigots voted to leave Diane Abbot voted remain ... just saying 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 (edited) 8 hours ago, bickster said: Because the argument stands up to no scrutiny, the very process this country is currently embroiled in proves that to any rational person. We already have sovereignty otherwise this absolute arsequake wouldn't happening in the first place Tbh what gets on my tits more is people who have ignored all the arguments and still prattle on about bullshit arguments like sovereignty. The EU makes TRADE rules, it does not tell us what is a crime in this country I predict the next argument will be about the European Court of Human Rights because it's been ignored that it has naff all to do with the EU, yet it's the devil's work and all the EU's fault This is a figment of your imagination. Will Self nailed this in the studio with Mark "isnt that a French name" Francois. Not everyone who voted to leave is a racist bigot but all the racist bigots voted to leave The independence argument is a strong one, considering that much European legislation takes precedence over UK law. Either way that wasn't the question, although sovereignty could be a real concern to some people and we have to respect that. Regardless, I am not arguing for leave here, I simply posed a question and feel like your answer has attacked me as if I was arguing for leave, which might support my argument that people who would like to vote for leave are ridiculed. I feel there is a contingent of people who are not open to a debate about leaving, and discussion along the lines of "bullshit argument" or "your imagination" isn't really helping. Not because you said it on a light hearted forum which I am cool with, but because it translates to many public figures who are quick to ridicule the opposing side. And this happens on both fronts - remain and leave. Edited April 30, 2019 by Mic09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted April 30, 2019 Moderator Share Posted April 30, 2019 44 minutes ago, Mic09 said: The independence argument is a strong one, considering that much European legislation takes precedence over UK law. I'll spell this out for you again. TRADE RULES, TRADE RULES, TRADE RULES the EU deal with TRADE RULES, not laws. Believe it or not, you've been lied to It's you yourself that isn't open to debate because you appear to be lacking in the fundamentals of the situation. The EU do not dictate our laws to us. This isn't up for debate, it's fact and when you realise this, you'll maybe see that you've been lied to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mic09 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, bickster said: I'll spell this out for you again. TRADE RULES, TRADE RULES, TRADE RULES the EU deal with TRADE RULES, not laws. Believe it or not, you've been lied to It's you yourself that isn't open to debate because you appear to be lacking in the fundamentals of the situation. The EU do not dictate our laws to us. This isn't up for debate, it's fact and when you realise this, you'll maybe see that you've been lied to Again, I am not arguing for this! Please read my post again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 We're in an interesting position where potentially, the English have voted to take Scotland out of the EU to take back control. But are not inclined to 'allow' Scotland to leave the UK as that would be silly. It's far trickier than just saying you can't. That argument leads to Farage style stupidity and voting to make a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Mic09 said: The independence argument is a strong one, considering that much European legislation takes precedence over UK law Can you name examples of EU legislation that's been brought in that you don't like? Or is it just the concept of legislation being made elsewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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