The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[snowychap]

I'm with Krishnan:

Edit:

I will make another prediction, actually - if the Tories win any sort of majority (or even if they are returned with the help of a couple of Brexit company officers) then it'll be a case of you ain't seen nothing, yet. Hard Brexit with the distinct possibility of no/a very limited FTA with the EU. Huge deregulation ('divergenece') all over the place often/mostly using secondary legislation. Parliament utterly sidelined. New Scottish ref. Push for Irish reunification.

Edited October 29, 2019 by snowychap

[bannedfromHandV]

20 minutes ago, snowychap said:

I'm with Krishnan:

Edit:

I will make another prediction, actually - if the Tories win any sort of majority (or even if they are returned with the help of a couple of Brexit company officers) then it'll be a case of you ain't seen nothing, yet. Hard Brexit with the distinct possibility of no/a very limited FTA with the EU. Huge deregulation ('divergenece') all over the place often/mostly using secondary legislation. Parliament utterly sidelined. New Scottish ref. Push for Irish reunification.

The Welsh government could even decide to start its own Indyref process...........as unlikely as it may appear Wales will not want to be left behind if Scotland and (a unified) Ireland break free.

[bannedfromHandV]

2 hours ago, snowychap said:

'Younger voters' are a small subset of the electorate (though they may make significant differences in certain seats like marginals with university populations).

I said that I didn't think that Corbyn was very popular in 2017 - that doesn't mean that he wasn't very popular amongst a particular group, like 'young voters' or 'Corbyn supporters', it just means that, across the board, he wasn't very popular. Neither was Mrs May.

The whole being roared on at Glastonbury thing is overplayed. It was then and if people are harking back to it now then they're making a similar mistake.

We live in an era where few politicians are popular outside of their support base (I'd stress that the PLP is not Corbyn's support base) and most are incredibly unpopular outside of that. Johnson, unfortunately,  does cross over a little more than others but is still deeply unpopular with those whom he cannot reach.

 

Indeed they are but they also represent the future as well as a section of the present.

I disagree on the Glasto thing, I thought it was a huge opportunity to set wheels in motion, if he could have stirred up the youth who knows what could have been achieved.

However, I think it's fair to assume you know more about all this than I so you're probably right!

[Dodgyknees]

1 hour ago, Mic09 said:

So, any early predictions?

I think Tories will get a roughly similar share of the seats, LibDems will get some of Labour voters due to a more 'streamlined' Brexit message. 

Either way, a minority government and the Brexit circus keeps going round.

Streamlined? Is that when they change from revoke A50 to requesting a peoples vote within each breath? It's about as streamlined as the cocaine going up Gove's rolled up £20.

[snowychap]

Just now, bannedfromHandV said:

However, I think it's fair to assume you know more about all this than I so you're probably right!

Don't assume either (certainly don't assume the latter!). I'm only giving my opinion on it all, just as you are.

[Mic09]

21 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Indeed they are but they also represent the future as well as a section of the present.

They do represent the future, but then they graduate, get jobs, some open businesses, and somehow, over the years, the idea of heavier taxation and nationalisation of services loses traction. 

[Sam-AVFC]

22 minutes ago, Mic09 said:

They do represent the future, but then they graduate, get jobs, some open businesses, and somehow, over the years, the idea of heavier taxation and nationalisation of services loses traction. 

I always hear this, but in my memory Labour have only tried to increase the 'additional rate' for any earnings over £150,000. I guess inheritance tax is the other big one, but surely the percentage of people leaving over £325k must be pretty low.

From a quick Google it only seems to be 0.1% of the population earn over £150,000 so I don't buy this logic.

Anecdotally I also know a lot of Conservative supporters who support nationalisation of core services...until Labour propose it.

[LakotaDakota]

Not sure the SNP are quite so secure as they think they may be, conservatives up over 300000 votes in 2017 ending up in 2nd place, many of which came from SNP losing 400,000+ votes.

Should also be noted that whilst Scotland did indeed vote to remain overall more people voted Leave than voted for the SNP in 2017

[Demitri_C]

So who is everyone voting for?

 

[GarethRDR]

Well, I'd go with Betty but I'd be thinking of Wilma.

[chrisp65]

7 hours ago, tinker said:

On a single issue election Labour represent neither side. Definitely not leave and not clear enough on their remain stance.( More negotiating and another referendum isn't going to wash) I just can't see who will vote for them when there is such a strong feeling from both sides of the argument. 

As a remainer I wouldn't and 9/10 times I  would vote labour , I like his policies and he appears to be a good man, despite his bad press. His Brexit stance will not work to 90% of the electorate.

He should make it clear he would back another referendum on no deal or remain.

It won’t be single issue though, that’s the dumb part of making it an election not a referendum. 

I was fairly ambivalent about leave or remain, finally voted remain. Had I finally voted leave that would not persuade me to vote for the sexually incontinet compulsive liar at the head of the Tory party. It’s a general election, all their policies are geared against the poor. They’re just bad people. Some of them know it, some are in denial, some are just suckers.

There’s an old truism, that there are two types of Tory voter, millionaires and idiots. If you voted Tory, then to find out which you are, just check your bank balance.

But anyway, in the last General Election, Labour got 12 million votes and the LibDems got 2 million votes. I guess its possible 6 million Labour voters will switch. I don’t have it down as overly likely.

 

[bickster]

2 hours ago, Mic09 said:

They do represent the future, but then they graduate, get jobs, some open businesses, and somehow, over the years, the idea of heavier taxation and nationalisation of services loses traction. 

This myth has been busted many times. The average age of the Tory voter has increased every election since the 70's I think. The tipping point used to be about 35, now its twenty years later

[bickster]

21 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said:

Not sure the SNP are quite so secure as they think they may be, conservatives up over 300000 votes in 2017 ending up in 2nd place, many of which came from SNP losing 400,000+ votes.

Should also be noted that whilst Scotland did indeed vote to remain overall more people voted Leave than voted for the SNP in 2017

Many of those will be Lib Dem gains

[chrisp65]

2 hours ago, bannedfromHandV said:

The Welsh government could even decide to start its own Indyref process...........as unlikely as it may appear Wales will not want to be left behind if Scotland and (a unified) Ireland break free.

Welsh Labour doesn’t wipe it’s own arse until Westminster Labour gives it a sheet of two ply and tells it what hand to use. That’s obstacle number one.

Communities that vote Brexit and think wearing the three feathers is an act of defiance, that’s obstacle number two.

I think we’re a way off a ref, but it is about the only silver lining in all this that it is at least now discussed.

Edited October 29, 2019 by chrisp65

[Mic09]

56 minutes ago, bickster said:

This myth has been busted many times. The average age of the Tory voter has increased every election since the 70's I think. The tipping point used to be about 35, now its twenty years later

I didn't say they start voting Tory. I said many young leftist idealists lose faith in "red" ideas once they get older, so voting Labour is not as obvious of a choice.

[StefanAVFC]

Young leftist idealists voting labour recently has come in with Corbyn. When I was that age, the trendy youth vote was lib dem and before that Labour were a soft left party led by Blair  

[bickster]

1 hour ago, Mic09 said:

I didn't say they start voting Tory. I said many young leftist idealists lose faith in "red" ideas once they get older, so voting Labour is not as obvious of a choice.

Like I said this myth has been busted many times

[Mic09]

1 minute ago, bickster said:

Like I said this myth has been busted many times

It's not an empirical research based statement  

It's my observation that, over time, "leftist warriors" tend to ease off on the ideas of equality. If you want the biggest example of this think of the flower hippie children of the 60s and how they became the money driven, credit card trigger happy generation.

[bickster]

Just now, Mic09 said:

It's not an empirical research based statement  

It's my observation that, over time, "leftist warriors" tend to ease off on the ideas of equality. If you want the biggest example of this think of the flower hippie children of the 60s and how they became the money driven, credit card trigger happy generation.

I also have no idea what hippies have to do with leftists, hippies are the original neo-liberals

[chrisp65]