The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[Enda]

1 minute ago, Awol said:

Immigration won't be the only red line in those negotiations, but by getting it out there upfront that the UK isn't seeks no single market membership on Brussels' terms she is beginning to clarify the UK's position - something you and many many others have been calling for.

Funny you call it "Brussels' terms", rather than "the terms the UK and every other member-state agreed to repeatedly since 1973."

No free movement = no single market membership (on anyone's terms).

Ye've always been free to control non-EU immigration. No you want to control EU migration. Cool, how's that been working out for you?

[StefanAVFC]

14 minutes ago, Awol said:

 

As for "fear, anxiety and hatred" being "a big thing in people's attitudes towards certain groups".. how do you measure and quantify that? Which people? Which groups? It's repeated by a lot of people who share your general outlook but I'm not sure on what basis you're saying it? 

The alleged spike in reported hate crimes? According to the PDF linked below that's largely untrue and based on some highly questionable reporting. 

Hate crimes: the facts behind the headlines

Can't quote it on my phone but worth reading to get beyond the hyperbole surrounding this issue.

 

None of these are 'hate crimes'

But the readership of all of these papers combined is in the millions so obviously people agree with where they're coming from. And if millions of people are reading this same incitement every day then there will be an ever-growing resentment and fear within these millions. All of these papers backed leaving the EU. I wonder why?

While we have a major part of our media consistently blaming all of our problem on immigrants, we will never be a tolerant society.

Edited January 9, 2017 by StefanAVFC

[tonyh29]

32 minutes ago, snowychap said:

Teresa not Theresa.

unless we are talking about 2 different people (entirely possible  ,I'm referring to the PM  and assumed you were as well ?) )  it's Theresa 

 

 

[Awol]

12 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

None of these are 'hate crimes'

But the readership of all of these papers combined is in the millions so obviously people agree with where they're coming from. And if millions of people are reading this same incitement every day then there will be an ever-growing resentment and fear within these millions. All of these papers backed leaving the EU. I wonder why?

While we have a major part of our media consistently blaming all of our problem on immigrants, we will never be a tolerant society.

First, the Daily Express and the Daily f***ing Star aren't a major part of the media. Secondly you seem to think the public are uncritical morons who's opinions are formed by 'right wing media'.  This is a continuation of the patronising theme that so called low-information voters were duped into voting for Brexit by a dastardly right wing conspiracy. It's a load of balls.

27 minutes ago, Enda said:

Funny you call it "Brussels' terms", rather than "the terms the UK and every other member-state agreed to repeatedly since 1973."

No free movement = no single market membership (on anyone's terms).

Ye've always been free to control non-EU immigration. No you want to control EU migration. Cool, how's that been working out for you?

The University of Cambridge Centre for Business Research published a paper (along with contributors from the University of Ulster) last week estimating total net migration falling to around 150,000 per year after the UK formally leaves - but that really isn't the point.

By repatriating immigration control numbers can be set that satisfy the projected needs of the economy in any given year, balanced against whatever commitments the elected Government of the day has made on the subject. 

It's the control element that many people care about and Governments that have hidden behind EU free movement as an excuse will have nowhere to hide. I think accountable Government is a good thing, another reason why I dislike the EU.

[tonyh29]

5 hours ago, sexbelowsound said:

I'm a teacher. If you want to ask any questions about the profession ask away and i'll answer honestly. Maybe then we can dispel some of the nonsense you've spouted above?

I missed this earlier but without going over old ground

I know it's not funny to some  ( and never has been  apparently ) but the teacher comments are a running VT joke from before many posters were even members   , we used to have a couple of teachers on here back in the day and it was nothing more than ribbing at their expense , those teachers don't post anymore but they took it in the spirit it was given  .. seems the replacement teachers are a tad more sensitive about their profession , I get it

You may not know it but many poster on here do , that I work in Market Research  , who do you think the posters on here are making fun / digs / insults ( delete as appropriate ) at when they make comments about pollsters getting election results wrong  ,it's not the chairmen of Gfk I can assure you ... now I could react and defend my profession , I could get insulted by it , instead I just roll with it and take it in the manor that I wish to view it in , i.e without malice 

I have friends who are teachers ,including my daughters current teachers ,  I have a son who goes to a special needs school and his teachers are amazing , they go way above and beyond the call of duty , I have nothing but admiration for them , what they are doing for my son and others at his school is absolutely bloody amazing  ... but you know what , on a football forum when I'm looking for a little light relief (oh matron) I'm still going to comment about the 89 days annual leave and I'm sure some posters are still going to hold me responsible when the polls predict a green party landslide in 2020 and instead May wins a second term

[StefanAVFC]

Just now, Awol said:

First, the Daily Express and the Daily f***ing Star aren't a major part of the media.

Okay. What about this? You know very well which papers I was talking about in the original point.

etc etc

Like it or not, the Sun, the Mail, the Express and the Star have a combined readership of millions.

4 minutes ago, Awol said:

Secondly you seem to think the public are uncritical morons who's opinions are formed by 'right wing media'.  This is a continuation of the patronising theme that so called low-information voters were duped into voting for Brexit by a dastardly right wing conspiracy. It's a load of balls.

It really isn't. If all you are exposed to is news from the Mail/Sun etc and you're constantly told that migrants are always coming here to use our resources and take our jobs, you'll believe it. That isn't a **** conspiracy. That's common sense.

I don't think only 'morons' don't possess critical thinking skills. I think it's a woefully under-taught 'subject'. (for want of a better word) For example, in my high school, only the top 5% in the year had a class called 'Critical Thinking'. It's implied that it's only for the intelligent and that is a load of a balls.

[sexbelowsound]

4 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

I missed this earlier but without going over old ground

I know it's not funny to some  ( and never has been  apparently ) but the teacher comments are a running VT joke from before many posters were even members   , we used to have a couple of teachers on here back in the day and it was nothing more than ribbing at their expense , those teachers don't post anymore but they took it in the spirit it was given  .. seems the replacement teachers are a tad more sensitive about their profession , I get it

You may not know it but many poster on here do , that I work in Market Research  , who do you think the posters on here are making fun / digs / insults ( delete as appropriate ) at when they make comments about pollsters getting election results wrong  ,it's not the chairmen of Gfk I can assure you ... now I could react and defend my profession , I could get insulted by it , instead I just roll with it and take it in the manor that I wish to view it in , i.e without malice 

I have friends who are teachers ,including my daughters current teachers ,  I have a son who goes to a special needs school and his teachers are amazing , they go way above and beyond the call of duty , I have nothing but admiration for them , what they are doing for my son and others at his school is absolutely bloody amazing  ... but you know what , on a football forum when I'm looking for a little light relief (oh matron) I'm still going to comment about the 89 days annual leave and I'm sure some posters are still going to hold me responsible when the polls predict a green party landslide in 2020 and instead May wins a second term

As I said, I'm happy to answer any questions about teaching honestly. I'm not sensitive about my profession at all and like to think I have an open mind about it.

It was an offer to yourself and anyone else who like to know more. 

[blandy]

1 hour ago, tonyh29 said:

the teacher comments are a running VT joke

They're really not. It's not about lacking humour, either. It's about tedious repetition of the same thing over and over* with a smiley added on the end. Like "jokes" about mother in law, or thieving scousers, or tight Scotsmen, or etc. etc.

It's the sheer unthinking lack of originality that's so utterly humourless and tedious. It's been done a million times before, by people funnier than any of us.

I think what I'm pleading for is originality in humour not repeating tired old tropes. Like I said the other day "teachers is lazy. Lol " is not a "joke" it's about as clear a sign as you can get of lazy unoriginal crap as you can get. It doesn't matter if it's teachers of scouser or jocks or whoever. Just say something new, rather than repeating someone else's tired, dead horse.

 

*yes, Stewart Lee does that, but he does it deliberately and absurdly and it works. so in summary "You're just a shit Stewart Lee" Lol

 

[tonyh29]

1 minute ago, blandy said:

It's about tedious repetition of the same thing over and over* 

Presumably you'll be dropping the Tories are evil line from your posting  routine then ? 

[snowychap]

1 hour ago, tonyh29 said:

unless we are talking about 2 different people (entirely possible  ,I'm referring to the PM  and assumed you were as well ?) )  it's Theresa

Two different people.

Don't tell me you've no idea who Teresa May is - not with your browsing habits.

[tonyh29]

1 minute ago, snowychap said:

Two different people.

Don't tell me you've no idea who Teresa May is - not with your browsing habits.

I couldn't even find her with google when I was trying to find out if we were talking about the same person or not but I added porn Star into my search and found her

 

star of the smack my bitch up video no less

 

 

[snowychap]

1 hour ago, Awol said:

By repatriating immigration control numbers can be set that satisfy the projected needs of the economy in any given year, balanced against whatever commitments the elected Government of the day has made on the subject.

So the government sets a quota for the year to come based upon what? Some sort of economic forecast?

[snowychap]

2 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

I couldn't even find her with google when I was trying to find out if we were talking about the same person or not

That'll be Theresa trying to control the internet.

[Awol]

1 minute ago, snowychap said:

So the government sets a quota for the year to come based upon what? Some sort of economic forecast?

May as well use the weather forecast if it's coming from the the Ministry of Propaganda, I mean the Treasury. 

[villakram]

1 hour ago, Awol said:

It's the control element that many people care about and Governments that have hidden behind EU free movement as an excuse will have nowhere to hide. I think accountable Government is a good thing, another reason why I dislike the EU.

You think leaving the EU will make the UK government more accountable?

I ask in jest as while it may well make it easier for us to make really smart points, based on factual evidence, the political scene will carry on with very little regard for this info. as they'll always construct some other narrative.

... and I haven't even started with mocking your dear leader anointed by the baby Jesus or some such nonsense.

[blandy]

24 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

Presumably you'll be dropping the Tories are evil line from your posting  routine then ? 

I don't try to pass that off as funny

I rarely post those words

If someone disagrees I don't post images decrying lack of humour

It's not repetition I don't like, it's using someone else's ancient "humour" repeatedly and then griping when people point out it's dull.

 

[tonyh29]

 if you don't like ancient humour why have you recently taken to using material from  Drats joke book 

 

look Pete I've no desire to keep this going its got far more personal than I'd like and to continue it risks one of us saying something that  jeopardises our friendship , heck I've deleted so many comments before hitting the post button this week that my  Delete button has worn out 

I've made my position clear and you've made yours , let's just go back to disagreeing about stuff rather than each other

[darrenm]

1 hour ago, snowychap said:

Two different people.

Don't tell me you've no idea who Teresa May is - not with your browsing habits.

Is the May a verb?

[PompeyVillan]

3 hours ago, StefanAVFC said:

 

 

What's Sir Paul McCartney doing in the ol' ISIS costume? 

I knew he was a bleedin' racist. Get back to where you once belong! 

[peterms]

2 hours ago, Awol said:

May as well use the weather forecast if it's coming from the the Ministry of Propaganda, I mean the Treasury. 

There are some interesting points made by Steve Keen and others, that many fields including climate science and others have drawn on chaos theory, network effects and other things, while economics hasn't, and that this partly explains why the models are so weak. So maybe weather forecasts would be an improvement.

Some discussion here about the weakness of the forecasting models used to predict Brexit disaster, including discussion of a paper on modelling from the Cambridge group you reference a few posts back.

Quote

The conservatives (including all the misguided neo-liberal ‘progressives) who are obsessed with the damage that Brexit will cause are just diverting the conversation away from the destruction that their fiscal ideology has caused and is continuing to cause.

Brexit is a smokescreen. It will not be detrimental to Britain in the long-run if the British government takes responsibility and uses its fiscal capacity to focus on domestic growth and employment.

But Britain will suffer if the fiscal austerity mindset continues (with or without Brexit) and the disruptions that will, in the short-run, accompany Brexit will be made worse by on-going austerity.