Davkaus Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) 8 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: Isn't that kind of the same thing? Erm...No? Option 1 is parliament (edit: by which I mean the pro-remain side of parliament, obviously) saying "Brexit is stupid, let's not do it, bugger the result of the referendum", which I can guess a lot of them think, but wouldn't want to publicly admit, and I can't see that happening. Option 2 is respecting the result of the referendum, even if they don't think it's the right thing to do, but providing parliamentary oversight of the government's plan, and not consenting to issuing article 50 until they're assured that the government has got a solid strategy in place instead of just shouting people down with "respect the will of the people" and "Brexit means Brexit". Edited November 3, 2016 by Davkaus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted November 3, 2016 Author Moderator Popular Post Share Posted November 3, 2016 22 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Fox has announced that they'll appeal, it's expected to be heard on December 7th. If they have a sound plan in place, there is no chance of parliament blocking the implementation of a referendum result. I'm somewhat concerned that they're appealing to avoid parliamentary oversight. I don't understand the grounds on which they're appealing, to be honest. Having read the whole judgement, it seems pretty clear that the notion of Theresa May or Liam Fox just arbitrarily deciding to invoke the article 50 is absolutely not permitted by the UK constitution. Only Parliament can take away (or give) rights to our citizens. It's kind of odd that the leave people who were so keen on the sovereignty of the UK parliament are now seeking to subvert that sovereignty. They'll lose their appeal, the clueless f-tards a pdf of the judgement can be downloaded from this page 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodders Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) UKIP still finding ways to display staggering stupidity. Current exhibit is Suzanne ' my brain is the size of a baby pea ' Evans. She wants to sack "Article 50 judges" Apparently, legal experts know nothing, the Article itself is an EU trap and activists are overturning the will of the people despite one of the leading clients having voted for Brexit. Edited November 3, 2016 by Rodders 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 so we've had the vote, we're going to have months and months of this going through the courts, then through parliament, then the actual negotiations id love to know the actual costs of the brexit decision, must have spunked a few hundred million up the wall by now 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 3, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted November 3, 2016 6 minutes ago, Rodders said: UKIP still finding ways to display staggering stupidity These folk must surely recognise that they are not experts on the UK constitution, and if they're not experts, then surely as a political party, as campaigners they should want to make use of expertise, knowledge and understanding? And when that expertise then reveals that "Parliament is sovereign" - the exact thing they've been campaigning for, for ages, shouting and screaming that it's so unfair just shows them (the UKIPs) up as utter arses. Imagine the fuss they'd make if a PM decided "sod parliament, I'm gonna start negotiating to join the EU". Just monumental bell ends. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 3, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 3, 2016 34 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Erm...No? Option 1 is parliament (edit: by which I mean the pro-remain side of parliament, obviously) saying "Brexit is stupid, let's not do it, bugger the result of the referendum", which I can guess a lot of them think, but wouldn't want to publicly admit, and I can't see that happening. Option 2 is respecting the result of the referendum, even if they don't think it's the right thing to do, but providing parliamentary oversight of the government's plan, and not consenting to issuing article 50 until they're assured that the government has got a solid strategy in place instead of just shouting people down with "respect the will of the people" and "Brexit means Brexit". T'was a joke... as in blocking it until the Government to have a coherent plan is the same as blocking it entirely.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Oh. Ok that was quite funny, my bad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 3, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 3, 2016 4 minutes ago, Davkaus said: Oh. Ok that was quite funny, my bad Wouldn't go that far but it was the best I could do... a Polish guy took all my good jokes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 It's a mess. It's either be undemocratic or be unbelievably stupid. This referendum will go down as one of the worst moves in British history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: This referendum will go down as one of the worst moves in British history. He's a Westham Villa fan you know, he could be reading this, be nice. Edited November 3, 2016 by Davkaus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 minute ago, StefanAVFC said: This referendum will go down as one of the worst moves in British history. Not even close. 1. Bloody Sunday, Dublin, 1920. 2. Bloody Sunday, Belfast, 1972. 3. Declaration of war against Austria and Germany, 1914. 4. Armritsir Massacre, 1918. 5. Appointment of Alex McLeish as manager of Aston Villa Football Club, 2011. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 3, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted November 3, 2016 14 minutes ago, TrentVilla said: a Polish guy took all my good jokes Leaving EU plumbing the depths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 Just now, Enda said: Not even close. 1. Bloody Sunday, Dublin, 1920. 2. Bloody Sunday, Belfast, 1972. 3. Declaration of war against Austria and Germany, 1914. 4. Armritsir Massacre, 1918. 5. Appointment of Alex McLeish as manager of Aston Villa Football Club, 2011. "One of"........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 (edited) You lot think this is bad? I recently discovered that the ladybirds we are seeing mooching about in my flat, rent free I may add, are immigrant ladybirds from South Korea! Pushing this through ASAP will be a god send. They've taken the jobs of the native lady birds. Edited November 3, 2016 by sexbelowsound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 3, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted November 3, 2016 9 minutes ago, sexbelowsound said: They've taken the jobs of the native lady birds. Good spot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 3, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 minute ago, blandy said: Good spot. Where is Bicks when Blandy needs him.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted November 3, 2016 Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 hour ago, blandy said: I don't think they will or that they should. But what they ought to do is make sure that the people doing the actual "leaving" stuff with the EU do a proper job. The referendum qustion was "remain or Leave" and Leave was the result. That's fine. And while "Brexit means Brexit" is not a bad sound bite, it's not a policy, it's not detail. Parliament needs to be able to hold May, Fox, Boris and Davies to account for their plans and actions. They can't be and shouldn't be just trusted to do "what's right". We already know that at least 2 of them have a record of doing wrong. One of them is an utter F-wit, all of the are duplicitous and ambitious for themselves over all else. That's a terrible recipe for the people to lead the task of determining our future. I see it as May et al being involved in negotiations which amount to both sides having different interests, and one side knowing beforehand what the other side wants and where they draw their red lines is a huge advantage, especially if their own is unknown. I always assumed that it was the strategy of the Remainers to force the Brexiteers to reveal their hand to give the EU maximum advantage, which would lead to an outcome as near to Brexit-lite as possible. I don't believe the accountability argument because according to the Remainers the outcome is going to be a total disaster and the outcome is beyond the mitigation of a very narrow negotiating position. It is not imaginable that the opposition would not blame everything on the party in power, no matter what the outcome is, because that is their job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted November 3, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted November 3, 2016 2 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: ...negotiations which amount to both sides having different interests, and one side knowing beforehand what the other side wants and where they draw their red lines is a huge advantage, especially if their own is unknown. I always assumed that it was the strategy of the Remainers to force the Brexiteers to reveal their hand to give the EU maximum advantage, which would lead to an outcome as near to Brexit-lite as possible. I don't believe the accountability argument because according to the Remainers the outcome is going to be a total disaster and the outcome is beyond the mitigation of a very narrow negotiating position. It is not imaginable that the opposition would not blame everything on the party in power, no matter what the outcome is, because that is their job. Well do both sides have different interests completely? I'm not so sure they do. There are elements where there will be differences, but probably more where there is commonality. Differences would be mostly around money - we presumably don't want to pay out and the EU will want us to - both in terms of contributions and also in terms of kind of paying up our share of various debts and liabilities or whatever. I guess the other thing where there will be differences wirll be the political aspect - where the EU will want to make sure that the UK is worse off outside than inside - to stop others "foolishly" doing the same as us. But even on that "punishment" for us will also hurt them. But the main thing is that until May, Fox, etc. can present a proper strategy and plan, nothing hould happen.It doesn't mean reveling your hand, but it does mean going on more than "Brexit means brexit", or "having cake and eating it". We saw with the referendum that there was no plan, we aw with Cameron before the referendum that he had no plan in his negotiations with the others. Failing to have a plan is a humungous problem. I don't understand your comment about not believing the accountabiity argument. It makes no sense to me could you explain, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted November 3, 2016 Moderator Share Posted November 3, 2016 Interesting developments with the Bank of England and their stance on interest rates and growth/inflation forecasts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted November 3, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted November 3, 2016 1 hour ago, Rodders said: UKIP still finding ways to display staggering stupidity. Current exhibit is Suzanne ' my brain is the size of a baby pea ' Evans. She wants to sack "Article 50 judges" Apparently, legal experts know nothing, the Article itself is an EU trap and activists are overturning the will of the people despite one of the leading clients having voted for Brexit. And so they should. One of them is a gay for goodness sake. A gay! (Source - Twitter) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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